ATA Friday Announcement!!

This is going to be a very big event so let's see what might be coming down the pike-
$4,000,000 what does that refer too?
Signature Sponsor announced but what does Charter Member refer too?
Three month lease, might this be expanded to eight months and cover other sports and events?
Will the ATA soon become the owner of the WSC?
Do the soon to be revealed plans show a new income stream for the ATA?
Will two new mega shooting events be announced?
This will be an extremely important day for the ATA and WSC so stay tuned. The ATA EC has done their level best to put an exciting future in place.

 

Mud bogs, I forgot the mud bog racing! Grntitan is so excited he's getting his lawn mowing equipment tuned up for the overflow parking. It's going to be a great summer in Sparta.

 

Will the Doc become a Charter member? Doctor Longshot, Charter Member has a wonderful ring to it.

 

I sure hope the excitement doesn't prove much for everyone

 

Potential deal will keep Grand American shooting tournament in Sparta
Official announcement of deal is scheduled for Friday at shooting complex

American Trapshooting Association will likely operate complex in spring, summer months

Specifics of deal not available



In this Wednesday, Aug. 5, 2015 photo, a squad of shooters participate in opening day competition at the Grand American World Trapshooting Tournament at the World Shooting and Recreation Complex in Sparta, Ill. Les Winkeler AP
BY TOBIAS WALL

twall@bnd.com

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The Amateur Trapshooting Association will announce on Friday what a Sparta city official and other media have said is a deal to ensure the World Shooting and Recreational Complex hosts the Grand American trapshooting tournament this summer.

Sparta City Manager Corey Rheinecker said Wednesday the agreement in place will “let the ATA come in May, June, July and August to operate the complex.”

Trapshooting operations at the Sparta complex, which is operated by the Illinois Department of Natural Resources, was shuttered Oct. 1 during the state budget spat that is still ongoing, though the nine union workers employed at the site are still on the job.

According to IDNR, the complex brings in about $1.1 million each year but costs $3 million to operate.

But local officials say the complex and the events it hosts spurs millions of dollars of economic activity in the region.

The ATA is based in Sparta. Lynn Gipson, the group’s executive director, was not available for comment Wednesday.

“I’m anxious to hear what they have to say officially,” Rheinecker said. “For the city itself, we’re looking at a $25,000 or $30,000 sales tax revenue increase” over last year thanks to the Grand American.

The mechanics of the deal have yet to be announced.

State Rep. Jerry Costello II, D-Smithton, whose district includes the complex, was not available Wednesday to discuss how the state planned to allow the ATA to oversee shooting operations if the state budget impasse is not resolved and the facility remains closed.

The ATA will announce the agreement at 3 p.m. Friday at the complex.


Read more here: http://www.bnd.com/news/local/article54525460.html#storylink=cpy

 

Tentative, to potential from a legal binding (lease) agreement , makes sense to me ... WPT ... (YAC) ... God Bless the USA ...

 

BS just more BS, just wait and see


GB...................DLS

 

Does anyone know where that "handicap" squad "In this Wednesday, Aug. 5, 2015 photo" is from ???? It looks like a long yardage squad from PA or KY ....

Is there a "photo" of the shooter on post 3 in a different thread ????

I guess if you had no clue, you could look at that "photo" and believe it represents .... "the best Trap-Shooters in the World" .... are competing in "the World's Largest Event" ....

 

Looks like the grass is in dire need of some fertilization, could that be a hint?

 

Guessing you think that is Hunter Edwards that appeared in the SCTP thread. I doubt it. Those guys are competing in the "Super Singles Event." Easy to tell from the yardage.

You have to give the media in the Sparta area a break to a certain extent. I have talked to many of them and they really have no clue about the sport other than the information given to them by the EC. We know how real that is.

 

I believe the shooter on post 3 is Brian Kasuske (sic) from the Omaha, NE area. The shooter on post 4 is Ed Grubbs, also from NE.

 

Well?

 

Well what?

 

Gipson stills uses the word "fantastic" in describing the 2016 Grand American at Sparta. The announcement regarding the MOU stated that if Illinois hasn't opened The WSC by April 15th the ATA can step in and lease the facility for three months. Does anyone think the state of Illinois will be in any frame of mind to reopen a facility that's been losing money every year. I believe they will very happily hand over the facility to the ATA along with a substantial rental bill. I don't see the light at the end of this tunnel. Not even a flicker.

 

Read it and weep.

http://www.bnd.com/news/local/article54883735.html

 

"Read it and weep." ... I did "weep" laughing so hard ... from that link

"The memorandum of understanding contains no agreement terms. Heffley said that’s because “we cannot negotiate the terms before the April 15 date.”

It is definite, there is nothing definite ...

 

I am weeping / laughing so hard I am gonna bust a gut muscle!

Costello said it was impossible to predict what would come of future budget negotiations.

Where is the mention of the Governor? The IDNR Director was not even there.

Where is the mention of the shoots they will be having? No mention of them! Why?

This statement is even weaker than the original statement by Morris. It looks like Merlo got it right again!

 

Leonidas- I guess when you want something to come out a certain way you get so fixated you don't see anything but the outcome. Please tell me where the money is going to come from to pay for everything. When the state was paying the tab they were losing between a million and two million a year. Now the ATA is on the hook and the number of shooters continues to decline. Many vendors have not and are not going to renew their leases. A large number of shooters who's ten year leases ended last year have not renewed. I just don't see how this can work financially so perhaps you can show me where I going wrong.

 

We have ourselves "A definite MAYBE"

 

No....see the SCTP thread!

 

And we are supposed to make plans on this BS. What idiot is running this circus.

 

Maybe the ATA should ask or do some research on what the cost will be to run the facility. The member have a right to know ahead of time what is in store for the organization. The ATA has an obligation to inform the members of the total costs to take on this load. Another bad deal will most likely sink the ship and all credability that the EC and BOD have left. This could be a damded if you do damned if you do not situation and should be a decision made by an informed membership. Roger Coveleskie

 

Where is the agreement. There is nothing here.

 

The ATA went from a (legal document) in the form of a lease, to an tentative agreement, to a probable agreement to no agreement and a maybe," Maybe " ...? If anyone finds any comfort in this they have not been keeping up and or paying attention for the past several months (years actually, but who's counting..?) ... Leonidas posted a link that should be used in a skit on Saturday Night Live, if they can get Lynn (The Talking Head) Gipson to free up some time to appear that would be great ... He can stand there and look into the camera with a blank look (stare) on his face and drool all over himself while singing Koom by yah and dancing the "Chicken Dance" ... ( close your eyes and imagine that) ...
So, they now agree to not agree but wait and see ... The ATA is screwed and they are loving it ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Here's another link for you wpt. You know, the one you posted a comment on.

Pay particular attention to the comments made between 7:57 and 8:45 on the video. It pertains to the idiots of the internet!

 

So, they even addressed (referred to you ,Leonidas) and you weren't even there, that's nice ... I do not call people Idiots unless its face to face eliminates problems that way ... Have to keep that one in the files with the other one, I'll play it back to you in the future ... Looks like the Villages Idiots Convention, not sure why they would want it memorialized but to each their own ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Apparently you took the broad statement (idiots of the internet) personally, oh well. With all the hateful comments you make and that one got to you, thin skin .eh?

 

There is 23 minutes and 26 I can never get back (talk about a waste of time) ... They essentially said nothing but did refer to Bill and LeeAnn Martin, If the Martins Co Sponsor it, it will probably happen ... If the ATA stands alone it probably will not unless its at a great loss to the organization, which say we can do anything if we spend enough of your money to the members ... Talk about fast shuffle, there you have it folks, I would not make any plans based on anything that was said in the video ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

I take nothing personal ... Not at all, sorry , you lose again ...

 

I would not make any plans based on anything that was said in the video ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

There is NO ONE on this pos site that was making plans anyway !! How long can you crybabies keep this up ? HAHA

 

mdj67,
I am not much of a mind reader but in your referring to this site as a "pos" site, surely because a lot of us do not agree with some other people all of a sudden we are crybabies ..? The kool aid drinkers believe anything and everything they are told, even when its been proven to not be accurate ... There are many shooters who stand firm to their convictions so they do not shoot rather than support something they do not believe in , can't see that as a problem ... If you watched the above video and found anything to be concrete conclusive please point it out so I can scan to that spot and adjust my way of thinking if I missed something when I watched it and witnessed a bunch of people talking and saying just about nothing ... I would drive by and stop (not shoot) just to visit a few people I know who have attended the grand for many consecutive (30 plus) years but they won't be there any more, seems like a lot of people won't be based on what they are saying ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

All in the same post, LOL

Do you forget what you say from one sentence to another?

And you have the audacity to criticize me, LOL

 

Sparta needed the SCTP to survive.

 

Leonidas,

There was not one person on that podium that could say for certain that the state of ILL. said you will have the facility at your disposal. Costs to the ATA were never discussed, who will pay for any and all expanses.

Also keep in mind the state did not honor a signed contract. How much faith can we place in one of their promises. The sound was not good on my computer, so I may have missed some statements. Roger C.

 

The deal is out without the sctp.

 

I will come out and say that the WSC will always be there.

I feel that the State will eventually sell off the property to a private group of shooters who can afford such an endevor, and it will be the Trap Shooters permanent home for years to come.

There is too much out there for the State to handle, and the ATA has already proven itself by having the Vandalia operation under their control for so many years.

Although I do not agree with some of the "Business" dealings that the ATA has participated in, I sure do hope this can come to a resolution soon.

I have not been able to go to Sparta, but I am told this is the most beautiful shooting facility in the world. I would hate to see the shooters loose this.

So what if the ATA has to cough up some bucks, why do they have a bank roll to begin with if they cannot use it for a nice facility for the shooters.

After all, it was the ATA shooters who put their hard earned money into this bank roll to begin with. They should see some reward for their support.

 

No matter who owns the WSC they will still have problems filling it. It's a bad location in a part of the state that has little in the way of supporting facilities. The attendance has been shrinking and that's not going to change. I'm of the mindset there's nothing to save the WSC. You can't generate the attendance needed to carry such a large facility. If someone got it for free they might survive a few years before the bills piled up and overwhelmed them. Maybe I'm missing something so feel free to show me where I'm going wrong.

 

And the boys in Chicago still have the final say. They are all paid by the state, do you think they are going to piss the capitol off? Roger C.

 

What deal? The complex is CLOSED. It's not open and as of today it's still closed. Closed as to mean NO SHOOTING. No Shooting today, tomorrow or in August without the Governors sign off which has not happened and will not happen until he gets the budget he wants.

There is no deal and has never been a deal. If anyone can prove otherwise please post the deal with the signatures of the ATA, IDNR and the Governor of Il. who BTW is the only one who can reopen the Complex. Everybody can talk deals all they want but the Governor closed the WRSC and he is the only one that can Reopen the WRSC.

 

Well if this is such a bad site I have but one question for you. Why are you here?

 

Mdj67, grntitan, hunter44, paladin, yakiman, big Don and many others are the lemmings of ATA trapshooting. Meaning members of a crowd with no originality or voice of their own. Those who speak or repeat only what they have been told. If any fair minded individual would take a minute and think about things like attendance and the financial ability to afford these as yet unfinished plans they would have real questions. Fortunately for Gipson and the ATA the lemmings will gladly follow the dream without any need for justification or hope of sustainability. All you hear is, "Oh Boy, Oh Boy, We're having the 2016 Grand at Sparta. I'm so happy." Pitiful, just pitiful. Grown men who essentially not only don't know anything but don't even suspect anything!

 

And all you losers will still be here crying about Sparta and we will be shooting !!!!! If it was only in Vandalia !!! hahahaha

 

Mdj67 why so bitter?

Gipson says fantastic direction. SCTP headed another direction. US Open another direction. No support from IDNR Director. No support from governor. No support from anti gun state. Illinois broke the lease. Who are you angry with?

And the members here are your problem?

Just bitter huh?

 

Thank you for proving me right. If you do indeed shoot at Sparta the ATA will probably suffer at least a 6 figure loss. But the lemmings will be happy. Oh Boy! Oh Boy!

 

I watched that video more than once and cannot help but wonder how people can talk so much and say absolutely nothing ..? Morris sat there like a blow up doll, Lynn (The talking Head) couldn't even look into the camera (deception), the lady on the far right was smart enough to say nothing and let them get it over with ... MAKES YOU FEEL ALL WARM AND FUZZY DON'T IT ..? WPT ... (YAC) ... God Bless AMERICA ...

 

Mdj67 why so bitter?

Biter ?? My post are the same as everyone's on here !! Just that I support AND shoot ATA . And all of you just Bash it. So if my post sound biter just think how all of yours sound . Very entertaining bunch of on here. hahah

 

Mdj67,
Would you have the balls to stand in front of the people you demean and repeat the statements that you have made on here. I very much doubt if you would. You are just like many of the posters from the other site that rant and rave, but never say anything of value. You spew forth with your idiotic blather like the shit stirrer that you are. You hide behind a sign on name and act like a retarded idiot. Grow up put on you big boy pants and have a nice day. Roger C.

 

The chicken and others claim Sparta needs other shoots to survive so I ask?

How many shoots did Vandalia have other than the Grand?

 

It also had a state shoot that was as large as the grand is today. Probably bigger. Also the state of OH paid for much of the maintenance and upkeep then. Because of the design of the facility there was far less maintenance required.

The fence alone that surrounded the whole facility was paid for by the OSTA.

 

Great to see you here. You only pop your head up to bitch when the corrupt bunch at the top take it on the chin. This one was a gut shot don't you think?! The blows just keep coming don't they.

Stay in touch. Making progress here.

 

Leonidas, Vandalia had two major shoots. They also had very little overhead. The trap shooting venue is not the only expensive venue at Sparta. The other shooting sports also add to the deficit, I'm not sure any of them pull their own weight. We are hearing about the short comings of the total facility. Vandalia could have been duplicated for a fraction of the costs of the world shooting center. The place was over built for the revenues that could be generated by its customer base. Sad but true. Roger C

 

Haha
Just making a point. This is how you sound to me. Roger what have I said that would not be able to say ftf ?? You have said more than I. Haha

 

The SCTP is the ATA of tomarrow, w/o it they the ATA and WRSC is toast, so bring the butter & Syrup and hot coffee


GB.....................DLS

 

Thank you Roger for your reply.

The other shooting venues you mentioned is something everyone seems to over look including me. I'm sure even upkeep on the lake also contributes to the total deficit among other items that goes along with the site being a State Park.

 

The cost of operation at the WSRC has been openly stated many times over, the State claims 3 million while the facility generates 1.1 million annually ... It does not take a genius to figure out its a loser and can eat up money fast than it can replace it ... The State of Illinois wants to wash its hands with the WSRC and be done with it in every and any way possible because it has costed the tax payers of the State of Illinois over 23 millions dollars to support it ... The ATA will probably get a wake up call when they find out what is going to cost them to rent the facility on a temporary basis if it all comes about after April 15,2016 ... I wonder why they have to wait until there is or is not a budget before they can strike a deal on the rental agreement being as it won't matter one way or the other ... What could or would be the hold up if it does not matter anyway ..? This type of stall tactic can only create more pressure on the ATA to make a quick (desperate) decision being as they will be running short on time by then and they will not have time to reason or logic it all out without putting the grand in jeopardy ... The ATA ( members ) are getting snookered again by the same State that snookered them on the lease agreement the first time around ... Calculated thinking and dealing on the States part, not so on the part of the ATA and its genius's ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

"What could or would be the hold up if it does not matter anyway ..?" pay closer attention to 3:55 to 4:10 .... you will hear "for legal reasons".

The Grand has turned into a political football, and serves well as a dividing distraction. The "ATA" leaders continue to pay themselves for actions to serve themselves. They enjoy the division the "Grand" creates, it takes the attention off their hands in the bank account. The "Grand" is bait that the leaders use to keep everyone's eyes off the money flow.

Stop taking the bait ... listen to what is being said ... it is NOT "legal" for these people to do this.

 

If anyone here thinks the IDNR and the ATA are going to wait for April 15th to begin negotiations, they must have not listened to well to some of the statements in the video. The one statement (Paraphrase) about working on this latest announcement since October, but didn't want to go public with this, makes me think that a deal is either in place, or is being negotiated at this time, in case it is needed after April 15th.

I just cannot imagine these "Business" people waiting to sort this out until the hammer drops in April.

The Grand will be in Sparta to stay whether State owned, ATA leased, or under private ownership.

I wish them well. The shooters have been through enough this past year.

 

Brad's friend (I hope),
I believe that your statement "THE GRAND WILL BE IN SPARTA TO STAY" is only partically true. If the Grand stays in Sparta it will only be there until the ATA runs out of money. We as members cannot afford this!!!

 

No we don't even have that. All we have is a lease on a CLOSED SHOOTING COMPLEX. Oh and the reason the other folks are upset is they are just beginning to see the truth of the matter and do not want to admit to it. They believe as long as they ignore the FACTS of the situation it does not exist.

 

Waiting around for a definite answer from the head honchos reminds me of hanging around to see if you hit the Lewis class or not. But far far worse. Sad that it comes down to this.

 

We have facts.

Illinois broke the lease.
Gipson sent a letter to Illinois accusing them of breaking the lease.
Illinois says after April they may negotiate a new lease. Maybe not.
Illinois says they may negotiate a lease next year. Maybe not.
SCTP shoots are gone.

No other legal agreements have been made.

 

So I'm sitting here watching the game and I get a call from the East Coast. Now I'm hearing everything is still very fluid. Negotiations with the IDNR and the State of Illinois are subject to change and there seems to be considerable concern the IDNR can't make the final decision. There is also conversation regarding the Cardinal Center. Should they try for another conversation? Would they be able to get one? Could they abandon Sparta and obtain a long term lease that allows them a yearly profit opportunity? Do they have benefactors that might back another parcel of land? I guess everything is still in play if they can find an opportunity for a secure long term future. Just what I'm hearing, I guess the future will tell.

 

Reminds me of that call. Not so sure it was a dream now.

Hello is Jack Fishburn there? Hey Jack. Lynn Gipson here. Whats that? You say we got ourselves in a pile of shit.

Now Jack. Why do say that?.... On americantrapshooter.com. Those guys exaggerate sometimes. They don't print that stuff on the other site. Yes I figure you don't go to other site. Wasn't implying that Jack.

Not calling to make you laugh Jack. Who is in the room? Dysinger? Slapping his knees huh. Laughing at the computer screen.

Listen Jack....could you tell Dysinger to quiet down a bit. Thanks. Now I called to thank you folks for allowing me to shoot at your venue last week. Yes tough targets. Much harder than we throw in the west. Hard to hear you Jack with all the childish giggling behind you.

Say Jack thanks again for the hospitality. I know the EC and BOD don't show up too often at your club. You say they never have. Well you see Jack maybe it is time we all just got along. It's all about business Jack.

Speaking about business.... some of my pals over here would like to invest in your venue. We would like to put a few more traps in. No wouldn't cost you a thing Jack. We would like to rent one of the buildings you are putting up. Taken huh?... Both of them?... What do say I have my pals pay for another? Why do you need to ask Dysinger? No don't put another poll up on americantrapshooter. Hate them things.

Look Jack, we are just trying to expand a bit. Improve the sport. Maybe we could move the big shoot your direction..... Yes, I know you have lots of big shoots. I know you added 2 more.

Jack there could be lots of money in this. Yes, I hear you have plenty of money....... Wasn't implying you need more.

Jack we're also considering moving the Hall of Fame your direction. You heard we only have 45 days?..... Americantrapshooter said that. Dysinger posted it?

Hopefully I can finish the dream later. Will let you know how it turns out.
________________________________________
above from July 3, 2015 fg

 

"Legal reasons", that is a generic answer to a question that they do not have an answer to or they do not want to answer ... The ATA went from a Lease (legal document) MOU, to a tentative agreement, to a probable agreement, to a maybe ... I rest my case ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

How does the State O Illinois break the lease, and then have the want to write a new one numerous months later, who in their right mind would sit down at a table and have a RE-LEASE drawn up. Oh that's right it's Blageovich's state, an anti gun lease, you all can come but leave your guns at home. The site is the Anti-WRSC Center a quiet Event, come on out and enjoy the Indoor Horse Arena, but watch stepping in the BOD and EC Manure it's all over the place, then down by the pond we have Mud Bog Racing going on. Then in front of the Limited Grand Stands we will have a Country Music Festival. Then we will have the Greased Pig Catching Contest, and we will Have The Talking Head Gipson All Greased Up and when he is caught we will Tar and Feather him, along with the ATA President, then we will have the Tar Dunking Booth, for a profit making event, $100 per Baseball till the EC members all get dunked. I suggest they sell the place before the grass and weeds get too tall.

Gary Bryant.......................Dr.longshot

 

It is doubtful that the State of Illinois' Legal Department will allow the original lease to 'remain in force', then give permission for the 'terms' to be violated for one year. That is permission for violation of terms for the use of their facility. It 'looks like' they were not trying to prevent the "ATA" from seeking other locations.

They may abandon the current "lease", after "April 15", but it is a pipe-dream to think that anyone can sign a lease then change the terms at-will.

The "video" says "back in October" ... "April 15 deadline" ... and "for legal reasons". The "lease" may remain 'in force' 6 months after a violation, if the violating party is seeking a "remedy". Until then "for legal reasons" they HOPE the terms of the current "lease" will be funded by the State, at their loss, providing a home for their cash-cow.

It 'looks like' the "ATA" ... "gave notice" to the State of Illinois on October 15 about violating the terms of the "lease". This may have set up the "April 15 deadline" for a "remedy".

The "video" was a public dog and pony show, to say, the "ATA" will not/can not enforce their interest in the "lease".

 

You have to remember that Illinois has what the ATA wants so they, Illinois has the upper hand on this as the ATA is weak. Sounds like our federal government on foreign policy.

 

I would think you mean "A LOT OF TRAPFIELDS" Are in Sparta w/no shooters/shoots to participate in.

Gary Bryant.................Dr.longshot

 

C'mon Doc,

You weren't born yesterday, and you as well as the rest of us know that the ATA will PULL the rabbit out of their hats, and keep this place going.

I am just being a realist. They will do anything to keep this going, one way or another, at all cost.

That being said, I do once again wish them well in their endeavor.

 

"They will do anything to keep this going, one way or another, at all cost." ... very true ... but ...

"They" are protected from the members by the "rule book" ... "They" are NOT protected from the IRS's and IL-AG's "law book".

It is time to remind the IRS and the IL-AG that the "ATA" leaders feel they are above the law. The latest shared documents show no change in the spending of the "ATA". Time for Round 2

If I spend my time on a keyboard, it does no harm to send my thoughts to other deaf ears, that may someday get someone's attention. "Likes" for a post are good ... others who "visit" to read what is being said, and return to Kool Aid country to "report", is great ... getting the attention of the IRS and IL-AG will be fantastic. Sometimes you have to blow-up the next bridge to stop the run-away train.