PSSA to draw for banks - except for selected events....

The PA State Shoot and other championships will draw for banks. That is what their recent flyer says. But there are certain events that will not happen.

I don't get the second part.

This forum has been all over PA to do this. If you have more information on this please let us know.

I report. You decide
merlo out.

 

Check out the PSSA website. They have a complete explanation.

 

Well it doesn't make any sense to me. Why not have banks drawn for all the events? Who was this decision for?

 

Rules modified for "7 shooters" on the preferred presquadding. I couldn't make that up. So let's hear who the 7 shooters are that keep their precious banks.

 

Guessing they paid for the privilege of shooting the banks they want…..At least the PSSA management is honoring their commitment….as it should be.

Paul H
Imperial, PA

 

I can't wait to see the few chosen squads the always have open post
I hope I get put on one of those squads. I understand for the AIM/SCTP days teams with multiple squads are not on bank 1,7,9ect. But random draw but on banks next to each other

 

Exciting to see PA at least try to make it look like they want fair competition! Then they post there are 7 shooters that will not be treated like everyone else. How do they think we will react to that?

 

Paul, when we bought the new PatTraps there was a program where a shooter or squad could purchase a trap and get rewarded by having preference on the bank of their choice for a certain number of years. I don't recall the details but that's why those squads have preference to those banks. As I understand it the time period will soon end, and there weren't that many, anyway. PA bob said just 7 remain, which sounds about right.

 

Mike....thanks for responding. That is the equivalent of admitting PA was participating in systemic cheating. Good to see the shoot will be almost fair. Seven shooters getting preferred treatment is still bullshit but I applaud PA for trying to make it look fairer. Many would be interested to see who the elite 7 shooters are.

 

Did you ever really have trouble getting on the bank you want in the last few years? I didn’t, and I’m not on any preferred list. You must really be scared of those 7 guys beating you…

 

The elite 7 paid for an advantage. It is cheating.

 

Blah blah blah. I say bring ‘em.

 

I am guessing they are trying to make the shoots in Elysburgh a competition? That gonna piss of the elite that think they deserve to be coddled.

Except for the remaining 7 cheats! Oh did I say that? It was sanctioned cheating.

 

The biggest bitchers will now be the average chasers. I predict that somehow the PSSA will relent and put the 27 yard shooters on better banks. Watch and see. It's coming!

 

Could be a culture change in PA.

 

Lol- can anyone here name one of the people that got a preferred bank that won consistently? I’d love to hear who that is, and I’d walk right up to them and say you didn’t deserve the wins you got because some internet tough guy thinks they “cheated.”

This message was brought to you by someone that didn’t ever contribute a penny to the PSSA other than when he shot there and paid for his entry fees and never got a “preferred” bank other than when I asked for it and it was available.

 

Yes but I won't.... and why should we have to do that to force PA to run a fair shoot.

PA got money from shooters wanting the better banks. It was accepted cheating. Accepted by those that benefited. Rather than us naming the those that paid for the advantages, how about you name the fools that came up with the plan. And name the elite seven that refuse to give up their precious banks.

 

So, in other words you won’t say who you have a problem with (since you can name who wins consistently and donated money to the PSSA), you’ll just complain about them online behind a screen name? Sounds real productive to me…


You think since you won’t name the people that you evidently have a problem with, you’ll think that I should name the people that came up with the program where the PSSA was looking for donations (to upgrade traps, if I remember correctly) and offered benefits to the people that helped the club? I don’t see the logic there. Maybe next you’ll say that you donated money to them (other than when you played that Great Eastern purse) and turned down the preferential treatment? Then, I’d say you have a leg to stand on for your gripe.

 

I don't know who's cheating or not. But it is significant that the "powers that be" decided to make at least something resembling change.
What is also significant, is that all the out of state shooters I have talked to, are all familiar with banks 7 & 8.

 

Those are actually my favorite banks on the property!

 

Well it takes all kinds.
I suppose that would be one reason you don't worry about the taxes on your winnings.

 

I’ve broken some pretty good scores on those banks. My bet is that you don’t pay much in taxes on winnings if you are concerned about 7 people getting preferential banks, either, Skippy. Or if you can’t break a winning score on Banks 7 and 8.

 

Skippy?

I thought this thread would be longer before the playground name calling started.
That’s the first and LAST time I want to see that CRAP

Fair warning

Flyersarebest
Moderator

And BTW I was walking the entire length of the place a LONG time ago. Maybe before some of you even started. It was like shooting in 4 different time zones then. I shake my head and laugh every time I read or hear anything about “banks”.

 

And just to clarify. I don’t agree with anyone that says it doesn’t matter what “bank” you shoot. Of course it does .
If it didn’t, you wouldn’t have people paying to shoot the better traps. And from the sounds of it that is what happened. And if all of that is just someone whining, WHY did they decide to draw for banks?

That is a rhetorical question. We all know why they did it.

 

I don’t see where anyone said it didn’t matter what bank they shot on, but I could have missed that.

 

So it DOES matter? So the stories about better banks are true. And the people that donated to the PSSA get to shoot on those banks.
Got it

 

In the 70's and 80's we walked the whole line. I shot best on the old traps by the old camp ground. One time my squad passed the squad ahead of us between the 2nd and 3rd fields because that squad waited for a wagon and road all the way to the top and we just walked by the practice traps and past them.

 

The shortest walk was from the last trap we shot on the bottom, to the bar. If you did it just right the last trap was right out front.
Low man buys!

 

Did I say it mattered? Look above, I like Banks 7 and 8, but I’ve shot them all and never thrown a temper tantrum over not getting where I was hoping for. You just said you used to walk the entire line, I’ll bet good scores got broken then, too (even if it was before my time at Elysburg). Walk out and look in the trap houses, they’re all throwing the same targets. Background looks different, but that’s it.

If anyone here that is complaining donated the money to the club and took the high road, turned down the preferential treatment, good on them. But, I’m betting no one here is in that boat, just griping. The club needed money for new traps, and rewarded the people that helped. If anyone thinks that’s not fair- what is in life? Should’ve pulled their pocketbook out and donated like the people that are being called “cheaters.” I’m still waiting on anyone to tell me who was in that group that “cheated”, got preferential treatment and consistently wins.

Again, this is coming from someone that didn’t donate or get preferential treatment.

 

Sounds like the people that donated that money are getting screwed.

Targets are all the same.
Setting of said targets is the same.
Only thing different is the background, and from what I’ve been reading on this thread that’s not a big deal.
Sounds like one bank is as good as any other.

SO, if everything is pretty much the same, what is this “preferred “ treatment?
How are these people being”rewarded”?

I read it twice just to make sure, “ The club needed money for new traps and REWARDED the people that helped.”

If there is no difference in the banks it sounds to me like they aren’t getting much of a reward.

 

Awesome thread here.....
There is this fellow that implies that just because some of these guys were part of the cheatin doesn't mean they always won. It's ok to cheat if we don't know the names.

And now PSSA is advertising their new stance on cheatin. The announcement says we are done with the cheatin as soon as the cheats get their monies worth. The systemic cheatin is over...after this shoot.

 

Flyer's I made that walk many times.

 

Hey everyone- our club needs money because we need new traps, if you donate it, we’ll let you shoot on the banks you want for X amount of years.

If I remember that’s what the PSSA said. Some people donated money, and got to shoot on the banks that they wanted to. Some people didn’t donate, me included, and we had to take what was left, as far as banks go. To me, it sounds like some people donated money, and got to shoot on the banks they wanted to for as long as the PSSA told them that they could. Those years are coming to an end for most of them. To me it sounds like both parties held up to their side of the deal and no one is getting screwed.

 

Where did I say it was OK to cheat? You quote where I said that and I’ll say I was wrong, but I didn’t say that, so we know how that goes. Also, the PSSA hasn’t said anything about cheating on the preferential treatment for banks- just that the agreement that they had with most people that donated is coming to a close. They’re still honoring it for the 7 people that have time left on the agreement, so they certainly aren’t saying that it was cheating. The contract is being fulfilled.

Also, I never said it’s ok to cheat if we don’t know the names. I asked YOU who was winning consistently after they got the preferential treatment. You couldn’t or didn’t answer which is fine. Don’t mistake your non-answer for me saying that cheating is ok. Not logical.

Go to the PSSA and shoot well, have fun, enjoy the traps that these “cheats” you talk about helped provide. Or don’t- it doesn’t really matter to me, way less than what bank I shoot on at Elysburg.

 

I love how it’s, “the banks they wanted”.

For all the people that never went to the PA state shoot why don’t you tell them WHY those donators chose those banks.
That would probably explain what their REWARD was.

 

Low man buys ??? Brad ?? I bet that did not happen.

 

Well, that’s true, isn’t it? They all wanted Banks 1-3, because they have a consistent background, and one where you’re shooting into trees. They must like that, personally I like shooting into a sky background better, hence why I like Banks 7 and 8 (also a consistent background) I’ve broken good scores on all of the above. Even on 5 & 6. I can’t remember if it was Bank 9 or 10 but I won some doubles trophies down there, too.

Is everyone is sooo afraid of these 7 guys beating them? Or however many people it was after they donated their own money for the benefit of everyone complaining here (well, at least the ones that actually shot at Elysburg after the new traps were installed). I’m thinking if anyone is so concerned about what bank someone else is shooting on, they probably already lost before they called for the first target.

 

79 Roy, I made the walk, can't remember getting into my wallet.

 

I wonder if you remember my shell carrier at the Maryland State Shoot? You accused me of trying to distract other shooters. She did a good job, carrying my shells also. Have a good day and pet my old pheasant when you walk by him.

 

I didn't realize I had to memorize the names of the cheaters in Pennsylcheats. Who knew there would be a quiz? I just shot. I trusted shoot management. Strange I never got on banks 1-3. And here the cheats cronies had the system rigged years ago?!

This almost ranks up there with the "score yer own game" PA and WV had.

PA should be sanctioned for this!

 

79ROY, I can't say that I can but back then I was very aware of my suroundings. I've beem putting my old photos onto SD cards and have a lot from the Maryland State Shoots the years I took pictures for T&F. Maybe I have a photo, I plan to upload some of them to my ututbe channel this summer some time.

 

You hear that? The cheats donated their money for your benefit.

Everyone should feel better now? The cheating will continue thru the PSSA State Shoot and then they say it will stop. Move along nothing to see here.

 

Y'a mean only the PA cheaters, right? Don't they do the same thing at the Cardinal center? The only difference there is that Jack Fishburn reached for his wallet & PSSA had to raise their funding through various programs. Bob Stewart ran both venues. Just so you know, the guys who came up with the money to buy the traps were a bunch of well healed geezers who very seldom shot a score good enough to make the leader board. We lost two more of them this year. Soon they'll all be gone and as personal friends I'm offended to have their memory and legacy to PSSA and the shooting world as cheaters. You want names? How about Tom Burkey and HY McAlister?

 

I would say they were taking advantage of the situation made available to them. Probably not unlike most of us would given the opportunity. After all they were working/playing within the rules, however special, laid out by the PSSA correct??

 

How were they taking advantage of the situation?

PSSA- “We need money for new traps, donate and we will give you preferential treatment for the banks you want to shoot on.”

Donors- “Here’s my check.”

PSSA- “What bank do you want?”

I’m assuming then the donor said what bank they wanted, and proceeded to shoot on those banks. So again, my question remains how they took advantage of the situation?

 

Sanctioned for breaking what ATA rule? There very well could be one that covers this, but I’m not aware of it.

I don’t think anyone asked for a list of people that cheated, I asked for anyone that donated money to the PSSA, got preferential treatment on bank assignments, and consistently won. No one has named a name, yet. Also- are you saying the people that donated money are the cheaters? See my post above, the PSSA made an offer (open to ALL shooters, not a select few), and some people decided to donate and take the perks that were offered. How is that cheating? Because they got banks that you supposedly couldn’t? I am sorry, but I don’t think anyone here that says they could not get on Banks 1, 2, or 3 has shot at Elysburg for a while, spots were open.

 

Personally, I never felt bad. But then again, I wasn’t worried going to a shoot about 7 guys that got banks they wanted to shoot on, either. Maybe I’m just more positive than you guys, or you’re just not very good at trap shooting.

 

I was never worried about that AA shooter that scored his own and shot 100 on the GAH. I can't remember his name. I don't think he has won consistently. Now I see where you are coming from. I don't need to know the cheats. I don't need to know who was good at cheating or taking advantage of a situation.

I need to know management has our backs.

 

His name is Adam Stefkovich

 

The relevant pieces of the puzzle are that some people (who cares who it was) gave money (regardless of cause) and were rewarded by being able to shoot certain banks (at least perceived advantage) by the PSSA.
And somehow everyone on the thread can't shoot and that's the big issue. Lol. What a monumental leap!!
It seems that the buried lead here is why the PSSA needed money in the first place??
I have some pretty good experience in the financial workings of sportsmans clubs. It was a really rare occasion that we couldn't cover upgrades simply by the revenue of throwing targets. In the instances that it happened, the donors were simply paid back, sometimes with interest.

 

Oh, I never said no one could shoot, just that being bothered by someone getting a bank they wanted, and going further by saying they CHEATED, probably says they aren’t winning very much. What if you get Bank 7, shoot a 98 in the handicap…then someone shoots Bank 1, and breaks a 99. No preferential treatment, they just got the bank that everyone seems to want. Did they cheat? Do they not deserve the win over you? I don’t think so, but it seems like some people on this thread might think so.

You also said that you have some good experience in the financial workings of sportsman’s clubs…how many of them had 52 fields that needed traps replaced? Big difference between a club with a few traps and one with 52.

Life isn’t always fair, folks. Don’t hate someone just because they stepped forward when a club needed something and took a perk that was offered to them.

 

I personally don’t see any parallel between the GAH winner you’re talking about and the people that donated to the PSSA. Other than being from PA, of course. But- what situation did those donors take advantage of? An offer was made to everyone to donate funds for the traps with the same perks. Some people donated and took the perks, others didn’t, and didn’t get the perks. What was taken advantage of in that situation?

 

And the PSSA shoots haven't been fair for a long while.......maybe next shoot. Dont show up late.

 

Think the winners will be any different than previous shoots?

 

Hey 10 point, didn't anyone ever teach you about ratios?? You know the true science called mathematics?? Four traps 52 traps makes no difference. Lol