Remember the Vandalia Handicap in Vandalia?

It was for the blue collar weekend shooters from Ohio, MI, WV, IN, and PA. The blue collar weekend warriors would show up for the weekend shoots. I am disappointed the ATA has chosen not to keep those shooters in their memory.

It is what it is right?

 

The weekend events at Sparta include a 200 bird singles event, 2 100 bird handicap events, and 2 100 bird doubles events. Seems like a good mix of opportunities for any weekend warriors, and to the best of my memory it's pretty much the same as what was offered in Vandalia.
Is your disappointment because it's not as close for the Ohio, MI, WV, IN, and PA shooters or ???

 

Smokey....you really are a clueless wonder. The Vandalia handicap had big money in it. Not like the crap that can be earned at Sparta. It was almost as big as the GAH in the day. It was twice the size of the Illinois GAH.

In your infinite wisdom you think the weekend warriors from PA would drive 14 hours each way on a weekend? To do what? To earn what?

You have no idea what the Vandalia Handicap was. FYI. It was not a 200 bird singles event. It was not a doubles event. It was not in the Gun Hate State!

 

It’s not how many targets they throw. It’s WHERE they throw them.They could offer FREE targets for their weekend shoot and they STILL WOULDN’T GET SHOOTERS.
Hell, they offered FREE targets to the kids and the kids said no thanks. Bye!

When in the freaking world are you guys going to admit it, the move to that White elephant, Ahole of ILLnews was a dumbazz decision? Plain and simple, the ata screwed the pooch.

 

There won't be any weekend warriors.

 

Exactly, the Vandalia caps was the last chance to win enough to pay for the ENTIRE WEEK of shooting.

 

Yeah, I was disappointed that the ata was stupid enough to go to that place. I was disappointed that I would have to drive 10 hours to get there. I was really disappointed that most of the clubs around me in SWPA, I could name 20 that threw registered targets, QUIT throwing them because hundreds of shooters didn’t need targets to shoot their class at the grand because they decided to NOT GO to that place in ILLnews.

And BTW, I spent every GD cent I made, and we made terrific money working in the mill, on shooting back then and actually placed 3rd in Thursday’s Preliminary Caps so YEAH, I’m disappointed. I was anyway, now? I couldn’t care any less what the ata, Gibson, and all the “Sparta is wonderful” people say.
Go there, shoot there, let that anti 2A state take the tax money you give them.
Bottom line? Screw ILLnews and that White elephant they built.
I hope the ata never leaves that place. Every year when that shoot they have the balls to call the grand gets smaller, or doesn’t get any bigger, it will remind them of how they F’d up.

If this was a private company, and the BOD or the EC or whoever the F made the decision to move did something that cut the participation in half they would be tossed out faster than you could say, F me, I quit.

 

And while I’m thinking about that place. Where are all those Mid-West shooters that Winston said would make up for the loss of OH and PA shooters. THAT HE KNEW WOULDN’T GO?

And don’t blame it on covid, or the cost, or anything but what it is.
That place NEVER got good numbers from day one

 

Flyer,
Maybe you can help me understand how the Grand ended up in such a terrible Midwest location.
I’ve always been told the Grand was kicked out of Vandalia, no other Ohio options were offered, and that terrible Midwest location offered a new facility at no cost to the ATA. I’m sure with all the shooting support of the area around Vandalia that must not be what happened. Please clue me in to why it left Vandalia and the shooting center of the county.

 

How long have you been shooting? You mean to tell me that you shoot registered targets and don’t know the history of what was once the biggest shoot of the year? If you did a little research yourself, there is plenty of it in past posts on this site, you will see why It had to move. I do know that if you Google Earth the area you will see that NOTHING was built on the old grounds so you will have to do some more homework to find out why nothing happened.
Are you SURE no other Ohio options were offered? Were there options to move to other states? Was that place in ILLnews the only option? Did the members tell the ata DON’T GO THERE?

The members that told the ata that place was a bad choice were told in reply not to worry about attendance.
The shooters that lived farther away from the MOST REGISTERED SHOOTERS would make up the loss of the Ohio and PA members. Didn’t happen from the first shoot they held at that place.
Hey keep going, you and HALF the number that used to attend can say you shot the “grand”.
And remember this, We didn’t leave the ata, the ata left us.

 

I saw in another thread that forum member Dave Berlet shot pretty well at the Grand so far and received recognition for his lengthy support for decades.

Good on ya Dave!

 

Flyer
I don’t think you answed my question as to why it left Vandalia and the Ohio shooting area. Makes me think the reason I’ve been given about getting kicked out with no other Ohio options might be the case.
As far as my registered shooting and knowing the history of what was and still is the largest shoot of the year. While I’m sure nothing close to your experience and knowledge, I have been at it a while. With over a quarter million registered targets and shooting in 39 Grand’s (over half at Vandalia) I do know a little about the game.
I enjoyed shooting at Vandalia and do have some nice memories of it.
The ample parking down near the road entering the airport
The parking security successfully limiting the stolen guns to just a few a year
The long lines in the entry building allowing you see many that you might otherwise miss
The wagons where hardly anyone fell getting on and off
The nice Ohio weather which made the lack of air conditioning areas mostly not much of an issue
The quick payments of any winnings usually within only a couple weeks of the end of the shoot
The ability to pass the time watching so many nice airplanes
My favorite might be how field layouts allowed 27 yard shooters on adjacent fields to almost shake hands
There are more nice memories but with the Grand being gone from there for about 20 years my memories are fading but I’m making new Grand memories every year.
I do feel sorry for those others who can’t or won’t make new Grand memories.

 

I miss shooting at Vandalia. It was only a short ride up 75, maybe 45 minutes. Probably another 45 minutes to find a parking spot. But in a way, all of the quirks (both good and bad) are what gave the Grand its charm. The conversations at the local club regarding Vandalia always include the complaints about the weather, parking, long lines and such. We remember those things and we actually miss them.

I remember my 55 and 57 Chevy's. I remember all their little faults, and there were tons of them. At that time everyone thought cars were about close to worn out when they hit 50,000 miles. No airbags equaled rolling death machines. These new cars last four times longer, are infinitely safer and get four times the mpg. But when I trade them in I don't miss them, I still miss those Chevy's.

That being said, I sure as hell am glad I driving one of those new and vastly superior cars.

Give me an airbag over a memory.

 

G-d bless ralph nadder.

 

Gee Smokey...I'll answer. The ATA was not kicked out of Vandalia. But the corrupt leaders should have been. For decades the ATA still owned the land. And they could have purchased the school property to the east.

The head of the airport authority said the problems were not insurmountable. There were three other options in Ohio. But as your handler knows those were turned down. Where is that $45,000 gun that ATA President got? Was it recovered?

I am calling BS on the targets. Your whole story is BS. Tell your handler.

Keep the Vandalia Handicap name out of Sparta.

 

Nice try with the sarcasm but as they say, "That Dog Won't Hunt". Even with all the things YOU think were bad, the place was still packed.
If that place is so great, WHY HAVEN'T THEY BEEN ABLE TO GET THE ATTENDANCE ANYWHERE NEAR WHAT IT WAS? From the first year to this year, the attendance for what is supposed to be the biggest shoot of the year, SUCKS

And another thing. I told you to do some research on why they moved out of OH. It's all over this site and that old POS one.
And don't feel sorry for those of us that decided to tell the ata to pound salt. I feel sorry for the people that think this shoot in August in a anti 2A state is the "grand".

 

Yeah, the ata should have had some kind of air bag because their "grand" sure as hell crashed.

 

"And another thing. I told you to do some research on why they moved out of OH. It's all over this site and that old POS one.
And don't feel sorry for those of us that decided to tell the ata to pound salt. I feel sorry for the people that think this shoot in August in a anti 2A state is the "grand"
Flyer,
There's no need to be so hateful and disrespectful. I don't hate or disrespect you. I only disagree with you.
I know you hate it that the Grand moved from your neck of the woods and that's OK with me that you do. I just think after 20 years it might be time to get over it.

I don't intend to do any research. I remember well the story of why the Grand was forced to move and why the Illinois deal was really the only option the ATA could afford at the time.

The facts are the Grand is smaller but still the biggest shoot in the country, and I can't think of a single issue any shooter attending the Grand has had with the anti gun politics of Illinois.

Over and Out

 

I don't have to get over anything. I QUIT shooting registered targets and paying dues and fees to the whore ata, and they were whores when they accepted the deal from that anti 2A state, when they moved the biggest shoot of the year to that place in the middle of bumF nowhere. And from the pathetic numbers they get at that place, a few THOUSAND other people did the same thing.

Here's an issue you can try and cover with your sarcasm. Any tax collected from you, and every other shooter, for anything you buy while in that state goes to help that POS state. I feel sorry for anyone that has to live in that state but have no sympathy for anyone that goes there and spends money and pays ILLnews tax money.

Yeah, I've heard that lame excuse that, "No one bothers me because I shoot Trap, they don't want my Trap gun". As long as they don't come after their Trap guns they don't care about anyone else." Bunch of self-centered SOB's.

And I don't hate you. If I did you would know it. I just feel sorry for you and get tired of the " Hey, sparta is great, CRAP"

 

The biggest shoot in the country is the SCTP at The CC.

 

Smokey.....

Did you and your handler get that? The Illinois shoot isnt the biggest. The SCTP National Championship is larger.

They were offered free targets in Illinois. Answer: No thanks!

Enjoy shooting wherever you are.

 

Sparta was not the only deal. There were 3 other places in Ohio, including the land they owned. There was a place in TX and Indiana.

Sparta has failed. It's not our fault. The Cardinal Center threw registered targets before Sparta. Let that sink in.

 

The reason the ATA sent a questionnaire to the members was because there were other other options. The members said don't go to Illinois.

 

Smokey

Why aren't you shooting the grand?

 

Wally,
My wife had a serious health incident last October and I haven’t traveled or shot since then.
This is the first Grand I’ve missed in many years. It would have been my 40th but there are other things more important to me right now than shooting.

 

I am not buying that any more than the other crap. And I am not from OH or PA.

Your lies fell apart when you implied this weekend activities at Sparta would be similar to the Vandalia Handicap.

Troll on!

 

Smokey....

You can educate yourself about some other sites that were offered to the ATA. https://www.americantrapshooter.com/threads/ata-update-on-world-shooting-complex.1643/#post-17161

There were a few others mentioned in other places. Do a little research before you speak. Just advice.

 

Wally
Don’t really care what you believe or don’t believe. You ask me a question and I provided you an honest answer.
The last weekend of the Grand at Vandalia or Sparta has only the grand american handicap on Saturday. The original posters reference to weekend warriors and the events I listed would apply to the first weekend.

 

And there ya go getting caught in another lie. You said you can remember. Then you would know the Vandalia Handicap was the last weekend. And you were specifically referring / comparing this weekend. Similar offering right? Singles and doubles. The weekend warriors came for the Vandalia Handicap and the GAH. Can't remember huh?

You said "and to my memory it was pretty much the same as offered in Vandalia."

Lying troll.

 

Wally
I guess you’re right.
Please consider everything I’ve said on this thread a lie.
I’m going try to find someone to apply an extreme punishment for my terrible behavior.
I hope that will make you feel better.

 

Before you leave you may want to read the thread that talks about the other sites offered to the ATA.
https://www.americantrapshooter.com/threads/ata-update-on-world-shooting-complex.1643/#post-17161

 

You were in such a hurry to say something about people being disappointed about that shoot they have in August not being in OH any longer that you didn’t bother to think first.
Open mouth, insert foot.

 

I already admitted that everything I said was a lie and not just poor memory about the Saturday event in Vandalia.
I’ve checked with my old 3rd teacher and she said my punishment should be to write on the blackboard 100 times Vandalia was great - Sparta is terrible - The ATA is bad. She also said that until I do this I’m not allowed to post anything. I’ll let you know when my punishment is complete.
Have a great day!

 

Your teacher made the correct decision but the wording is wrong.
It should be, Vandalia was great-Sparta is a joke- The ata is incompetent.

Unfortunately for you your teacher isn’t part of the administration of this site so instead of writing that 100 times, you will be required to write it, and post it here, one time……for 100 days.

If you start now you should finish just after President Trump wins the election on November 5th.

And I WILL have a great day. Unlike you who will be thinking that you should have never started your original post.

 

Flyer,
A few things:
- I can't agree with your wording. It looks like BS to me.
- I don't believe I will be required to write anything not of my choosing.
- You are very wrong about me thinking I should have never started my original post. You see I really enjoyed seeing you and others come on here and rant and rave about a decision made 20 years ago that you can't do anything about.
- I am glad to know you were having a great day and I hope you continue to do so.

 

1862 Competitors grand American Handicap ........worst since before WWII

Do something about that!

 

So you are just a troll. Well, let’s see if any more of your posts stay up.
I can pretty much guarantee that anything you post from here on out will get deleted.
Trolls suck

 

It's a shame the ATA isn't keeping those weekend shooting events in their memory, but we can still cherish the memories and traditions ourselves.

 

Looking into the past.Ohio could have kept the Grand American local. I guess your govenor was anti gun and didn't want the shoot to stay in Ohio. Below is from a Ohio newspaper at the time. Can't blame the ATA they took the freebie from Illinois thanks to Gov Blagojevich ..

My how things have changed between 1924 and the 1990s when the Dayton Airport expansion began threatening the grounds. Unlike civic leaders of the past, today’s leaders and politicians either encouraged the take over of the grounds or at best ignored the situation. Then Ohio Governor George Voinovich and Lt. Gov. Mike DeWine did virtually nothing to respond to the ATA request for proposals during a search for a new home for the ATA and the Grand American. The few proposals that Ohio did put forth were late in the process and, quite frankly, did not match the requirements specified by the ATA. One cannot blame outsourcing, contract disputes, NAFTA or Washington DC for this. We only have to look to the anti-gun leadership of the City of Dayton and to the attitudes of George Voinovich and Mike DeWine.

 

^^^^^^^^ idiot alert.

 

Just google Buckeye firearms association for the complete article that was published in 2005. It contains most of the facts and the economic assessment to the area at that time. I would have wished the Grand stayed in vandalia because of more motels and places to eat. But it is what it is. I was at the last grand and the people that worked there and the kids that had summer jobs working there were pissed that the Grand left.

 

Palos...to be clear the Buckeye Firearms Association isn't the expert. You can get all the information here in the archives. Your statement that expansion threatened the Grand is BS. The ATA would no longer have been able to use the leased land to the west. They kept their own land which was the equivalent to the CC.

The ATA could have purchased the adjoining school property to the east. They were offered land on the other side of the highway and had other opportunities in OH.

The Cardinal Center threw registered targets before Sparta.

It is what it is you say.

1862 in the GAH!

 

I only know what I have read. I am sure like everything else there are back door deals going on all of the time .
The ATA is not filled with angels.We have to guess what their agenda is? Vandalia was all Interstate driving for me.
I am 82 and the Grand will be in Sparta when I am long gone.Sparta is a motor home and cart paradise.

 

add doug to the list as to why the numbers are down..........

 

How many shooters shot the grand handicap event? Roger C.

 

Scroll up Roger. The number is posted above

 

So you like and praise a guy that wrote a book full of lies? He also lied to Congress. The corsair was a hell of alot safer that the piece of shit vw next thing you're not going to tell me is that the Winchester model 1911 as a safe gun to shoot and never made a husband into a widow maker.

 

OK, boys, back to your seats and read what's on the blackboard.

They guy's name was Ralph NADER, not nadder.
His book "Out of Darkness" is about the fight against corporate corruption, unbalanced political power, consumer dangers, big pharma and climate deniers.
I supposed the ata could fit into the corporate corruption part.

Doug,
I doubt bobski was referencing to that book NADER wrote called "Unsafe at any speed". That one was written to get the CORVAIR off the road. I don't think good old Ralph had it in for the CORSAIR, a WW2 prop plane made famous by Pappy Boyington and the Black Sheep or the F-7 CORSAIR II which first flew in Sept. 1965

And the Win 1911 did get the name "Widow Maker". You people that don't know about it can find a close up of the barrel (knurling) and see that there isn't a cocking handle on the bolt. Guess how the geniuses at Winchester wanted people to cock the thing.
I just can't figure out how the gun could make the HUSBAND into a widow maker. I could see this scenario.
Husband #1 goes to work.
Husband#2 ,The married guy down the street, goes to Husband #1's house to have an affair with #1's wife.
Husband #1 comes home early and catches them in bed.
Husband#1 grabs his trusty Winchester 1911 and kills Husband #2.
NOW, since Husband #2's wife is a widow, you could say that the 1911 turned a HUSBAND (#1) into a widow maker.


Now, you two boys behave, and I won't have to send you to the administrator's office.

Flyersarebest
Moderator (The nice one)

 

I will. Bobski all is well.

Flyer,I better spent time proof reading my posts.

 

That would be a good idea.
BTW, it should be, SPEND time, not spent. LOL

 

all is well. i was making ref to his bill to have seat belts installed in cars to save lives when all those classic 50's cars were killing the owners. thats all.

 

Lol yes. I have a feeling that auto correct is to blame for some of it. ( it wasn't for spend I just tried it)

 

Yeah, the ata should have had some kind of seat belts because their "grand" sure as hell crashed.