POLL - Should the PA State Trapshoot draw for banks or walk the field? POLL

Since a thread about this subject has been lingering, let’s ask the shooters.

Should the PA State Shoot adopt a more fair method of assigning banks such as drawing for banks and walking the field?

I report. You decide.
merlo out

 

While we're making PA better, why not include Ohio, VA, WV, Maryland, Missouri, New York? The reason they don't do it is BECAUSE IT DOESN'T WORK!

 

Not much difference at Ohio now due to the shot screens. WV (old home grounds) are the same.

 

What part of it doesn’t work? I’ll get popcorn.

 

above statement coming from PA crony.

 

Mike you are wrong. It worked for years and years. All shoots should walk the line if you want a fair shoot. Many of today's AA's can't shoot a good score if not on their pet bank. I would have voted yes twice if I could have.

If you are satisfied with the Pa shoots' loss of shooters over the past 15 years then by all means keep catering to the RULING CLASS and their buds.

I've shot PA state shoots when we walked the line that had 1500 shooters in one event. I shot the grand that had 4000 shooters in an event and we walked the line plus we didn't get to pick our handicap squad or post.

I guess you are just addmiting that today's ATA shooters have no talent, too fat, or balless and want everything handed to them. Since that is what you believe I guess you are right it won't work today.

Why don't you let everyone shoot the whole 100 on one trap and one post. That should really raise PA's attendence.

 

And Mike I forgot to mention all of those shoots were done with ink an paper long long before the first computer.

 

Bring some for me Wally

 

Hey Brad, telk me when you walked the line at Maringo. Now you want to go back to crayons & chalk boards.

 

Mike I was lucky to get the osta to switch ends on the 16's championship day so at least you had to shoot 8 different traps. That has went away at the CC too. We had just as many dead head thinkers on the osta as pa does. I will say that my years on the board we had over 1000 entries most years an as high as 1200 something.

When Don and I were on the OSTA we shot for cars, motor cycles, shells, guns, golf carts, and lots of smaller items.

I would think that going back to 1500 shooters would be atractive to any association, let alone one hard up for cash. You can't go back to chalk and crayons because the help clubs get today can't add, write, or form a thought.

The "help" sucks at a large trap shoot, don't know the rules and it would appear that from another thread the line refs and TD at Pa don't either.

Pa and the ATA both headed in a fantastic direction.

 

“Marengo” is spelled “Marengo”…

 

Yeah, Jon, I misspelled tell (to telk) also, but the "edit" feature doesn't work for me. It's embarrassing too, because being from PA I'm supposed to be smarter than them Ohio guys.

 

Mike…
We have shot screens at the CC.
The background is pretty much the same. I have shot at PA. I don’t understand why you said fairness won’t work in PA.

 

When I was actively shooting ATA I walked the line at all clubs I shot at in AZ, at three different clubs in Reno, two in Las Vegas, in Kansas, in Iowa, in Nebraska, in Missouri, at 5 or 6 clubs in Florida, every club with more than 4 traps in Ohio, in Indiana, in Michigan, in ILLINOIS, Tenn, VA, every club I ever shot at in Pa with more than 4 traps, in NJ, NY, DEL, and every other state that I shot in before Winston and his buddies runied Trap Shooting.

Once they put in the million dollar row for campers at Vandalia they went to the bank system. I beat that because there was no pre squading and you had to at least stand in line to get your bank. Shortly the fat, lazy ATA members with friends on the EC and lots of cash demanded to BUY their squads. I've had several knock down's with Stuart about that to no avail. So here we are.

 

Brad, you should write a book. Many of us new shooters (I'm 82, but only shooting ~25 yrs) have no real feel for the legacy and history of the game and how it has evolved over the years. One thing we all agree upon, is that it's in steep decline due to a host of reasons, and that there are no easy fix's. Get busy & write the book, I'll buy it.

 

I think Indianna should be included in that as well, I suppose you could suggest Michigan as well, although unlike Indianna which has fields with a definite advantage.

 

You have something against electric power?

 

Mike…..
We don’t all agree with you. Trapshooting is on the decline due to three factors. Not a host!

One factor is pure corruption. Yeah. Like thinking we can go to PA and the tournament directors are going to treat everyone fairly. Your crony friends won’t do that. You can own that one.

Making the targets less sporting. That broke the handicap system. It took the money out of the game.

The move to the gun hate.

At least you admit you are clueless about the history of trapshooting. The fixes are simple.

No one cares how little you know. You admit you are clueless about the sport and the history. Your uneducated opinion is worthless.

 

Since you're in the know how much will it cost me and my family to become prima donnas in PA and get those preferred banks? I'm not interested in becoming a lodge member (I was approached years ago) so I failed rule #1. I suppose it comes down to making a significant contribution to the welfare of the organization since the traps are already accounted for. Maybe a donation to the construction of the Sporting Clays course -oops, that's going nowhere. Must I wait until openings are created when the current prima donnas either quit or die-I'm 74 yo so that's unlikely to work. Please advise me on the proper course of action!

 

Pat traps are not paid for, there is a significant loan still outstanding for them. Same deal with the golf carts.

 

Andy, no one is ponying up the $5,000 beans for a bank & a parking spot anymore. Besides, with 5 & 6 shut down, there aren't many banks remaining to whine about. Eight banks are about all they can staff anyway.

 

Hmm, the parking spots were permanent I believe at one time but that changed. I can assume the trap banks aren't permanent too or are some groups special?

 

Not any more, Andy. Preference for banks & parking spots were taken away from the volunteers and reserved for the EC & certain payed employees. Now that Bob Stuart is doing the pre-squadding on-line, and the mail in shenanigans have ceased, there's little reward or incentive to volunteer.

 

I suppose I'll take a few looks at those names again and see just who is still special.

 

Brad, back many years ago when you were young and a few years before that when I was young it seemed like the old folks who were shooting were able to walk the line. The bank system should never have come to competitive trapshooting. Walking the line, or skipping traps levels out the playing field, even if the background is consistent. Now with the migration to everyone having a golf cart the distance between traps shouldn't really be a problem, other than some folks not being able to shoot on their favorite traps all the time. I agree that the million dollar campground and the bank system was not good for trapshooting, but I was really hurt when you started picking on some of us plump, unmotivated shooters.

Also the handicap system can't work as intended if you have mandatory yardage and don't have mandatory reductions. Your yardage is supposed to represent your ability at the present time, not what it was years in the past.

Dave Berlet

 

Your forgetting they old guys got on the wagon they did not walk.

 

Now the old guys drive their golf cart one trap to the next, as the young guys do too and all trap shooters get fatter and fatter. Terry have you ever looked around at the average size of today's 18 year old and compaired those pictures to our generation back when we were 18. Fat, fat and way out of shape. A real shame. The walking would do every trap shooter that was not disabled a lot of good.

The ATA used to let those with a handicap shoot on a couple of special banks and Pa could do that. I'm way past caring about registered ATA shooting. The reason I get on here is to make sure someon's miss information doesn't have a free voice to spread bull shit.

 

Bring Skip back and things would improve overnight.

 

I understand he'll be looking for a job very soon.

 

He is currently unemployed.

 

Talked to him this morning...

 

Missouri Trap Shooters Assn Inc

..
MANAGER WANTED
The Missouri Trapshooters Association located near the Lake of the Ozarks, Linn
Creek, Missouri has an immediate opening for a full time Manager. Please submit
resume
and any
relevant
documents to
Michael Lumetta

 

Is PA considering making the shoots more fair? Does anyone know that latest on this?

 

As someone who has only shot at PA once, which are the "preferred" banks, and why so?

 

Banks 1, 2, and 3- although on 3 (especially the C and D traps) you do see some of the campground in the background. Personally I always preferred banks 7 and 8, which is nice because there wasn’t much trouble getting squads there.

 

I think that decision should be voted on by the shooters and not the club delegates.
The southern grand scrambles the banks and nobody complains and even when RJ Stuart was running the shoot.
It would be only fair that shooters were given the opportunity to shoot banks they’ve never had a chance of getting. Problem is, getting it pass the EC to allow a vote. Jmo
And Mike Poore, it does work.

 

No one ever walked the line at Marengo unless you forgot or were too cheap to rent a cart. We didn't walk the line very often in PA either as we had buggies and drivers. Heck, we even had a kid run over and killed by one of those buggies in PA many years ago. Problem with a few posters is both selective memory and still believing they are 30 years old instead of 70. Since a few of 'em don't even shoot anymore they probably believe we're still shooting Remington 1100's and shells loaded with cardboard wads. Scrambling banks works great in FL but I'd like to see some dreaming posters cross the highway walking the line to finish their last two traps. Some say heavy recoil can affect your brain.

 

Talk Louis out of retirement manning the bar in Elysburg and I’m sure attendance would increase
Paul H, Imperial Pa

 

I will agree with ollie that today's ATA shooters are made up of the fat and lazy who are so out of shape that they can't tote their $20,000 shotguns from one field to the next without a golf cart.

Half the ATA active shooters are jr's and sub jr's with Aim and SCTP shooters having to be ATA members to shoot. The other half is mostly sub vets, vets, and sr vets. Not a very stable group to count on if you are in business either way. A fantastic direction for sure.

 

I think random banks for all shooters is a great idea!

 

What is the latest on this poll? Did the PA leaders get together and make a decision on this? Is there a meeting scheduled? It looks like almost 94% of the shooters favor a fair system.

 

If you're over 70 yo you'll die before you ever see a change in the old boys' network. By that time Elysburg will look like Vandalia today. We can only hope someone comes to their senses.

 

It's the other 6 percent that is the problem. The PSSA in crowd.

 

I have shot Pa for over 30 years. I do not pre squad and I usually get the banks I ask for. I don't know what all the fuss is about. The reason attendance has fallen has nothing to do with the banks. Cost and the rise of sporting clays as well as the feeling by many of the younger generation that guns are evil has led to the decline. I doubt that the sport will ever have the participation that it had in the past.

 

i always shot good banks at Pa. because we pre-squaded. if you are not able to pay the pre-squad fee; perhaps you should not be shooting.

 

Hello Mark, nice to see you and welcome to the site. Sorry I missed your first post back in July or I would have said hello and welcome then.

You know me starting 45 years ago when you ran with Charlie, and Lenny and I were running together.
I don't think the reason people don't pre-squad is because they can't afford it.

Flyersarebest
Moderator.

 

It works in Indiana but some in PA aren’t into fair competition.