STATS - Review of ATA's Last 20 Years

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Enjoy Our History !

 

Thank You HB

It's like reading an obituary.

 

Thank you Sir for putting put this together and posting it for the world to see ... Most interesting ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Our fantastic direction seems to be running in reverse. Thanks to mismanagement.EC our you listening, BOD you are responsible also. Roger C.

 

Nicely done, numbers tell a story that many of us may have known. Its up to our Association to do a better job at promoting our sport. Thank you.

 

The ATA ( Association) has always been promoted by the individual members and the local clubs they belong to or shoot at, the ATA in turn has always reaped the harvest by getting members and attendees because of the members and local clubs ... The ATA returns some of the money brought in by the clubs but other than that the clubs and those members get little if any recognition ... The Clubs work for everything they get from the ATA being as they collect the fees on behalf the the ATA and figure out all of the option moneys, payouts and so on for the shoots ... The ATA could in fact exist on the entry fee's alone but they would have to cut back some of the perks and free gun give away to the out going president .... The ATA has become the "Cash Cow" for the ED, EC, and many on the BOD if they are one of the Good Ol' Boys and are suck ups ... The ATA has decayed to the same degree and level as those who are in charge, been going down hill for the past 20 plus years ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Looks bad .....

May look even worse without the ATA math ..... You know ..... the 30,000 campers and "excel errors" kind of things puts doubt about how accurate the current numbers are .....

Look at 2012 and 2013 ...... "more than" a rounded number of "members" shot in exactly "6000 registered tournaments" ..... looks odd .....

Maybe "PULL 2012" was learning some new math with their faulty excel program .....

 

For the last few years those Member numbers have been made up 50% by SCTP shooters that have to register 16 yard targets to shoot for their teams. They don't register team handicap targets though.

The club numbers are the real story. Kenny would have went back to about 1980 if he really wanted to make you sick. 100,000 members were the numbers that the ATA officially put out then.

You can sure see how those easy targets have made trap shooting wildly more popular over the years.
N1H1 should rest well in his grave, his policies sure have worked out well. Winston hated money shooters that he couldn't beat. He wanted to take them out of the game and it looks like he did.

When you look at these numbers and the fact that last year there were 8.7 million new gun owners in the US it even looks worse. More gun owners, fewer ATA shooters. Gun ownership is higher than ever and the ATA still figures out away to screw it up. FANTASTIC DIRECTION, GOOD JOB MEN, CARRY ON.

 

Let's say COVID kicked butt in 2020. The larger venues squeezed the smaller clubs out of throwing ATA targets. Let's not forget the policy of handing out yardage for crappy scores further diminishing the need to get in target requirements. The rest is history.

 

This is a direct result of the expanded all American teams and all of the satalight grands. I told them when they started the grands, that it would affect the small clubs they ignored the advise. Of course we all know they are the smartest people in the room. Roger C.

 

Just received my program for the Empire Grand.

$38.00/100 + $3.00 ATA and $3.00 State fees first 100 per day.

These prices should help the smaller clubs who charge $25.00 / 100 and are closer to the shooters.

Empire Grand is a fun shoot, but you never know if it will Snow, Rain, or be hotter than hell.

I have experienced all three over the years.

 

And to think that they allowed some Zones to have two Satellite Grands.

Remember, the Spring (Satellite) Grand approved in 1976 was proposed by E. C. member T. E. Dillon, Western Zone V.P. It was reportedly desired by the Western States, sponsored by the ATA and designed to have the prestige of the Grand American Handicap tourney. The E.C. agreed that no State or ATA fees would be collected for this Championship.

The tournament first Spring Grand was scheduled for January 21-23, 1977 at the Phoenix T&SC, AZ,

In 1981, an E.C. motion and tie vote, that Satellite Grands could only be held during the month of January & February was defeated by the tie-breaking decision by the ATA President.

In 1982, the E. C. voted unanimously that all future satellite grand contracts must contain a guaranteed "no loss" provision.

The ATA August 2002 E. C. Minutes state:

"Western Zone Vice President David R. Kaiser interjected that the Satellite Grands have grown so large (in attendance) that perhaps we should consider moving them into the Zone slots. The Executive Committee engaged in an animated discussion pertaining to the established foundations of the Satellite Grand concept and the intended purposes of providing access to a sanctioned ATA Championship Tournament throughout the various sections of the Country. A comprehensive review of all potential conflicts between and among the various State shoots ... Zone shoots ... Satellite Grands ... was thoroughly reviewed by the Executive Committee Members. The discussions revealed that there were numerous - and conflicting positions among the Executive Committee Members. The debate was cordial, but the division was pronounced. All Executive Committee Members agreed that there was no fractionalization intended and it was agreed (by all) that the original tenor of the Satellite Grand concept was that no Satellite shall interfere with any established State Tournament within a normal catchment (travel characteristics of the ATA Shooter) area of any particular Satellite Tournament."

Executive Committee members were smart enough to agree that "no Satellite shall interfere with any established State Tournament" but not disciplined enough to stand by this important rule.

"Subsequent to this review and discussion, Vice President Acklin offered a motion to grant the Great Lakes Satellite Grand American Tournament another year in the present time slot (traditional Fourth of July). Southwestern Zone Vice President Dr. Thomas P. Arvas seconded the motion of Vice President Acklin. Following the President's call of the question, with no further response, it was by majority vote

RESOLVED That the Great Lakes Satellite Grand American Tournament shall not be held over the traditional
Fourth of July weekend as per the prior year's Tournament.
BE IT NOTED FOR THE RECORD That the Executive Committee Members voted as follows on the preceding
motion:

Voting in favor of the motion were:
Central Zone Vice President Thomas E. Acklin; and
Southwestern Zone Vice President Dr. Thomas P. Arvas.

Voting against the motion were:
Southern Zone Vice President Kenneth P. Duncan;
Western Zone Vice President David R. Kaiser; and
ATA President and Eastern Zone Vice President Phillip C. Wright.

President Wright - voting (last) to break the recorded tie vote - reasoned his vote
by noting that there appeared to be no appreciable increase in attendance at the
most recent Great Lakes Satellite Grand American Tournament and that concurrently,
there appears to be degradation in the State shoots (in recognition of Vice President
Duncan's prior representations).

BE IT NOTED FOR THE RECORD That Executive Director John R. Norris advised that
the required Letter from the Michigan Trapshooting Association approving the
Tournament and requested shoot dates has been received by the Amateur Trapshooting
Association.
[NOTE: Refer to subsequent Executive Committee Action regarding this Resolution]
[ ATA E. C. Minutes, Commencing August 7, 2002, page 30-31 ]

And then they remembered the rule regarding the date:

Satellite Grand Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . At 19:01 Hrs., August 17, 2002

President Phillip C. Wright, in due recognition of the Resolution passed by majority vote at the Annual Meeting restricting any Satellite Grand American Tournaments from being held June 1 through August 25, year to year, desired to have an enabling Motion presented to the Executive Committee for the benefit of the Michigan Trapshooting Association. To accomplish that purpose and on the Motion of Central Zone Vice President Thomas E. Acklin with second of Southern Zone Vice President Kenneth P. Duncan, and following the President’s call of the question, with no further response, it was unanimously,

RESOLVED That the Michigan Trapshooting Association is hereby granted permission to host a
registered trapshooting tournament to be known as the Great Lakes Satellite Grand American
Tournament on the dates of the traditional Memorial Holiday, 2003, time slot. The Tournament
shall be held at the Michigan Trapshooting Association Homegrounds located in Mason, Michigan.
The Michigan Trapshooting Association is granted license to utilize the ATA Logo and Tradename
for promotion and conduct of this Tournament. Said license is exclusive to this Tournament and
no other authority or permission is granted hereby.

FURTHER RESOLVED That Executive Director John R. Norris is hereby directed to prepare an
appropriate Satellite Grand American Tournament Contract and submit same to the Michigan
Trapshooting Association for proper execution.

BE IT NOTED FOR THE RECORD That Executive Director John R. Norris stated that the required
Letter from the Michigan Trapshooting Association approving the Tournament at Mason, Michigan,
during the traditional Fourth of July, time slot, had been received. In due recognition of the events
leading to this concluding Resolution, the Executive Committee is in unanimous accord that the
Michigan Trapshooting Association is hereby authorized to amend their original Letter, at their
discretion, to include the traditional Memorial Holiday, time slot and to resubmit same to Executive
Director Norris.

FURTHER NOTED That the Target and Shooter Services’ fees (exclusive of daily fees) shall be
limited to a maximum charge of Twenty Five ($25.00) Dollars per hundred in all sanctioned Satellite
Grand American Tournaments.

FURTHER NOTED That all Satellite Grand American Tournament sponsors and/or promoters are
directed to include pay-off sheets, from the last day’s concluding events, to all shooters that played
any of the options or purses, by whatever name or title.
[ ATA E. C. Minutes, Commencing August 7, 2002, page 55-56 ]

I guess the current E. C. forgot the rule or just decided to overlook it. Maybe this rule was rescinded some years back but I don't recall reading about it.

Here are the dates of the 2021 Satellite Grands:

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I tend to agree with oleolliedawg and Roger C.

Not enough attention is given to the smaller gun clubs and State/Provincial Associations. These and their members are the foundation of our sport.

Dear ATA . . . . you have cracks in your foundation!

HB

HB

 

Now add in the Zone shoots And 50 State shoots and the Grand American along with many of the large local shoots. You have very little or no time for
the small local gun clubs. They not only have cracks in their foundation they have just about dertroyed it. A 50% reduction in small clubs registering targets
as a death knell for registered shooting. Are they to dense to see the problem they have created. Roger C.

 

Yes they are Roger

 

And they thought giving 2 and 3 yard deductions all would shoot more and who would like to be on the 18 yard line

 

"who would like to be on the 18 yard line?"

I know of one guy that raised his hand and said, I do.

 

The satellite Grands were invented for the All american points chasers. They hurt the smaller clubs , dug deep into the state shoots ,and absolutely KILLED the Zone shoots !

 

I wonder with the shell shortage IF the small clubs who host the BIG 50s are getting more shooters ?

IF I were still shooting, I know I would be shooting these more than the big shoots.

 

Here in the south we can't seem to get much interest in the Big 50 program. Back when I started I was in the military and was stationed in ILL. 50 event programs were quite common at a lot of gun clubs then . Here in the South it is mainly "skeeter country" and trapshooting isn't nearly as popular as it is in the NE or Mid West . A lot of shooters just seem to want to shoot singles only so they don't want to go to a shoot just to shoot 50 targets I guess. We had one club ( mainly a skeet club) near us that shot them for awhile but ,after the guy who ran them got ill and passed away they died out. Now they shoot NO ATA at all. I enjoy them but, I know of nowhere in the south they are being shot.

 

I do know that the Mid-Carolina Gun Club outside Orangeburg, South Carolina hosts weekly Big 50s and draw a lot of shooters.

The club has Rodney Rains to thank for keeping these shoots alive.

Not sure about clubs in the rest of that area though.

 

Almost a weekly BIG 50 here at the Mid-Carolina Gun Club, Orangeburg, South Carolina.

Good fields, good time and best of all, good people !

This is one club, and one fellow (Rodney) who tries hard to give shooters a fair game at FAIR prices.