Sparta puts it to vendors and those wanting vendors

In it's infinite wisdom Sparta and and many attached have OK'd the scheduling of the U.S. Open against the Ohio State Trapshoot. (not sure any real date exists tho)

At first I thought little about it as previously they bungled things by putting the shoot against the Buckeye Classic. What about the vendors? Will Browning be in both places? Does the ATA care? Or is this another IDNR debacle? Another fantastic direction for Gipson?

We had posts and copies of emails where it seemed the ISTA , and Ned, were trying to avoid these problems.

It appears to me that if they are open for the shoot they can charge the vendors for prime spots/dates that aren't prime. Too bad..... Sucks to be a vendor.

 

Changing the date, after announcing May 12-15 shows what a ragtag operation they are running!

 

The vendors deserve to treated with respect and given honest answers ... They provide the essentials for all who attend and its a tough way to make a living, should not be made any tougher on them ... There are enough shoots on schedule to eliminate any and all of them that might be problematic for them , they owe it to them self to attend those and forget about the other ones ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

The Cardinal Center and the WSRC are roughly 465 miles away from each other. That's about a 7 1/2 to 8 hour drive.

I don't see the big deal with 2 shoots scheduled on same dates.

I've attended the U.S.Open the last few years and don't remember that many vendors there anyway.

 

Of course you don't. I could have said does anyone think PGB can understand this subject?

Gee....now PGB....don't you think that is the point of the post? It was previously against the Buckeye.

The point again PGB is that they charge big bucks to the vendors for the promise of big dates. And then there are no vendors and very few attend and you say "I don't understand the problem."

Of course you dont understand. You are PumpgunBob.

 

Wont be many there this year either. Great scheduling.

 

And another thing.

Are any of you even going to either shoot?

If not, then why are you complaining?

 

Ohio State shoot here we come!

 

Bob....

A little research about the above posters would show you they all will be shooting and where. Are you that dumb? Are you an adult? I have my doubts.

 

Bob....another perfect statement showing do not understand the issue.

The IDNR has been telling vendors to pay for 5 figure contracts. They pay prior to the shoots. They don't go to the shoot first and then decide they are going to put up a tent.

Read up Bob.

 

There are time, you might just as well "talk to the Toaster", this appears to be one of them ... The Cardinal Center will have a great turn out and plenty of vendors because people know it will happen as they expect it to ... Simple business concept, be where the business is and your business will do more business ... Location, Location, Location ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Quality vendors make a great shoot even better. No vendors and you'll soon close the doors!

 

I understand what you guys are saying.
That's why I commented that the vendors will be where the majority of shooters are.
The U.S. Open didn't draw a huge crowd the last couple of years we participated.

This year 2 shoots are scheduled for same time frame.
We won't make the U.S. Open this year either as our state AIM tournament is the same weekend at Linn Creek on Saturday and there's a registered shoot there on Sunday.

I was just commenting there will be times when events are going to overlap.

Several times the SCTP International tournament in Colorado Springs has been the same time as the AIM Nationals.

You make your choice to shoot the event you want.

It really only matters to you and no one else

I find it hard to believe the events were scheduled that way just to piss off the vendors.

Looks to me like it only pissed you guys off

 

They didn't try to piss off vendors. They're already too ignorant to realize what they did!

 

PumpgunBob, I worked in the firearms industry for about 20 years so what I am going to say is based on MY experience. Trap Shooting is a very small part of the industry from a large company's point of view, such as Winchester, Remington, Federal, Beretta, and the other large ammo and gun manufacturers, but Trap Shooting is a huge part of some of the smaller gun dealers and specialty vendors. Vendors that sell clothing and hats, vests and reloading etc. I think the point of the idnr scheduling a registered shoot against the Ohio State shoot is to make these smaller mom and pop vendors make a choice. Illinois is already a bad place for a firearms dealer and putting this on top of that is a loser for Sparta even if they do have a shoot. Vendors don't like to be taken for granted at anytime but when you make them choose it is even worse. Good Will is a very important factor in the shooting business, once you take it for granted and lose it, it is almost impossible to get it back. Brad

 

Brad,

Do you really believe the U.S.Open was scheduled on purpose to coincide with the shoot at the Cardinal with consideration of what it might or might not mean or do to the to the vendors?

The way I understand at the WSRC, a group or club or association presents an event to the WSRC for a date or backup dates and they decide whether the event or events will be scheduled.

I find it hard to believe that it was done on purpose to lessen the turnout for either event or to lessen the sales of the vendors at either event.

Will the Cardinal have less participants because the US Open is at the same time or will the U.S. Open take the hit?

 

I dont think it will bother the 10 0r 15 shooter at sparta or 1000-1500 shooters at the Cardinal Center.

 

I just did a little research myself.

In 2015 there were 3 shoots with dates that overlapped each other;

Alabama State Shoot 5/28/15- 5/31/15 139 total shooters
Empire Grand 5/27/15- 5/31/15 418 total shooters
US Open 5/28/15- 5/31/15 509 total shooters

For 2016 there are 4 shoots that will have overlapping dates;

US Open 6/23- 6/26
Maryland State Shoot 6/22- 6/26
California State Shoot 6/21- 6/26
Ohio State Shoot 6/20-6/26

My question is who scheduled the Maryland and California State shoots at the same time as the Ohio Sate shoot ?
It's already been determined on this thread that the US Open being scheduled is going to screw the vendors.

What about the Maryland and California shoots, aren't they screwing the vendors also?

Granted , the Ohio State Shoot will probably have higher attendance.

Dates and shooter numbers I got from shootscores.com

Signed,
Just Curious

 

Just curious....

Great research. A big issue your research overlooked.

None of the above MD, CA, AL, etc, needed to push for 5 figure vendor contracts to keep their heads above water.

 

FG ,

What does the Cardinal Center charge for spaces in their vendor buildings or to just throw up a tent and a few sawhorse tables?

I'm thinking it's not cheap there either.

 

Quite a bit I am sure. They have a waiting line. 2 more buildings scheduled to be built. Their dates are written in stone.

Big difference....one group is managed by the bankrupt gun hate state and some corrupt ATA leaders, while another is ran by the Cardinal Center and it's associates.

One group is a drain on the trapshooting community and another shoulders the burden to keep it afloat.

 

Fair enough answer.

But I don't think the Cardinal shoulders the entire burden.
It's not the only shooting facility out there.

There are other shooting venues outside of Ohio.

 

PumpgunBob, I doubt that the Illinois idnr took anything in the trap shooting world into account when they picked out their dates. My point was that this is only going to hurt Sparta, it won't affect the CC and the Ohio State Shoot any. It will hurt the vendors that may want to go to Illinois, it will hurt the chances of the SCTP ever even considering going back to Sparta. This is what happens when you have people running things that don't understand what they are doing and the consequences of bad decisions. Consequences of moving a shoot date, or moving the grand to Illinois in the first place. Just bad business. Brad

 

The "ATA" is a "Vendor" .... and not a very smart one.

They "sell" memberships to participate at a shooting format and record keeping service sold to the Clubs. And at the "Grand" they "sell" camping, shells, and an Event with targets.

They are so self-absorbed in personal pay, they ignore the fact that any conflict hurts the top "Vendor".

 

I've heard from a reliable source that the vendors asked for the dates for the U.S. Open to be changed to June.
Not the IDNR change suggested earlier.

 

Sure you did....

 

Who'd they ask or is a handwritten note hung on the entrance considered sufficient?

 

Please post the list of "Vendor" names that made this request. It will be interesting to know who would benefit from requesting a conflict. And any "reliable source" should have the names.

 

Useless 1,
I ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT in any way divulge my source.
No vendor names were mentioned to me and if they had been, I ABSOLUTELY WOULD NOT divulge them either.

There's many posters and moderators that post what I believe to be bullshit on this forum and when I call bullshit I am called stupid or other childish shit. So therefore, I believe I have the right to post what you or any other posters believe is bullshit.

You guys go out of your way to disparage anyone or anything that doesn't agree with you or believes, correction, KNOWS good old Vandalia is gone and it's not coming back.

 

PumpgunBob, this is your one and only warning you will get from me. Grow up or be gone. I can and will ban you.

 

Well, what's taking so long?

Hope you leave the last post I made on so the rest of the old crabby bastards can see it in the morning.

I'm sure they have taken their Geritol and gone to bed by now

 

Done

 

+1

 

And another one bites the dust!!!

 

Just some kid that apparently doesn't have any respect for "old bastards" that he thinks have to take geritol.
No great loss

 

Was your reliable source Neil Winston??? PGB I am Old But I am not Crabby. But I make a Stand and I Stand Firm on it. I will not support a Non Gun friendly State.

I see only one reason Illinois was chosen " To Fatten Some Pockets" of some of the Leaders. How do other shooters see it now?

Hindsight is 20/20. *I believe Dayton and Vandalia would still stand up and donate land to bring it Back!!!!

But my strength is with Jack Fishburn and the Cardinal Center, Whom stood up and made one of the Best Shooting Venues for Trapshooters and SCTP Teams in the Country.

Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan, West Virginia, and Kentucky is the Trapshooting Mecca, The Center Hub on the EAST COAST

Gary Bryant..............................Dr.longshot

Yours in Sport
Gary Bryant.................................Dr.longshot

 

I tried to talk to PumpgunBob with respect and honesty. It has always amazed me that every time you present a cool aider with a fact, a statistic, or years of personal experience they lash out in a personal rant. I don't know if pumpgun is a kid who hasn't been around or not. The EC VP's and delegates that got the ATA in the position it's in certainly don't have youth to explain their poor decisions.

I believe what you are seeing is the realization that the pro Sparta at any cost crowd backed the wrong race horse, everything they thought they knew has turned out to be false. Just like the stop Trump republicans they can't, or won't, admit they were wrong. People Facts don't lie, so maybe pumpgun will get a life lesson out of this. If not I won't miss him, a delusional person is seldom missed or remembered. Pumpgun if you want to be taken seriously in life, seriosus people bring some facts to the fight, don't mistake insults and FEELINGS for facts. Brad

 

If the ATA was on the ball, they would post a list of any and all vendors that will be attending the shoots being as in essence, Vendors are a big part of any and all shoots ... I suppose this would make to much sense from an outsiders stand point, same goes for the folks at Cardinal Center which in many cases could be the deciding factor for a lot of shooters in some strange sort of way ... This has probably never been an issue but if the dates are at the same time it could matter to a lot of people ... The vendors are the candy in the candy store for many of us who just gotta have stuff when we see it , much the same as Apple pie and Ice cream ... It would also serve as a good FYI at shoots in the future as an added attraction ... Sometimes, I think I think to much ... WPT ... (YAC) ...