RJ Stuart, Presquadding, and banks 5,6,&7

One thing that has become obvious at the Cardinal shoots is that Banks 5, 6, and 7 are avoided like the plague by a majority of shooters. Whether it is warranted or not, it is a reality. On a nice sunny day, they are OK, but can be problematic on overcast days.

But that is not the purpose of this thread. The problem is what it causes to happen during squadding. If someone is attempting to squad, and does not want to shoot those banks, and RJ Stuart will not open additional banks, we may be losing some shooters in those events, especially if the weather is bad.

As an example, my squad made 3 trips to squad on numerous events in attempts to get what we considered a better bank. We eventually waited till the events were well under way, and then squadded when more banks were opened. A "drive in" shooter may not have the time to do this, and of course there are those that simply will not pay the cost to shoot on banks they hate.

So, I'm wondering how many shooters got frustrated or pissed and simply didn't shoot? I hear people calling 5, 6, & 7 the "Out of State Banks" meaning those that don't know better get stuck on those banks. When the weather is bad, this problem magnifies.

And, just in case your response is for us to "quit crying and presquad".....we did that last year and did not get one requested first choice bank. We presquadded 1 week after presquadding was opened. In most cases we got some decent banks, but not what we requested. We expected to at least get one or two first choice banks and times, but that didn't happen. That tells me that many shooters are prequadding, and perhaps some are getting special treatment?

If RJ Stuart is suggesting they are attempting to force people to shoot banks 5,6,& 7 and fill squads for efficiency, it ain't happening. Educated shooters will simply wait like we did and wait till the event starts to squad. As a result the labor and time gets extended anyway, and in the process shooters get frustrated by making repeated attempts to squad, and Cardinal gets a black eye.

Open more banks earlier, especially if you have a full squad or 3-4 guys that want to shoot together and keep the shooters (clients) happy.

 

The wind is less there so I prefer those banks but perception is reality.

 

Our squad missed the singles event on Thursday for that reason. We couldn't get anything but 5 or 6 the multiple times we tried to squad earlier, and by event time it was raining, so we sat out. Spent a lot of extra time trying to squad anything other than those 3 banks last week, and it took a lot of the fun out of it for me. I had many youth shooters I was squadding for, not just myself. The gals in the CEB get frustrated with not being able to offer you anything else until those banks are all full. I drove by those banks on Friday afternoon, and of the 12 squads on the line, not 1 was a full squad. Several 2 or 3 man squads, mostly young shooters and short yardage.

 

A trap shoot is a sporting event, not a social activity.

These statements are true of sporting events:

1. No participant should have the ability to choose with whom to compete or at what field or court to compete. Such matters are selected at random by the event, or in the case of seeded competitions, by the rules of seeding.

2. The conditions for all competitors in the event must be reasonably equal.

Pre-squadding and bank selection are old-time chummy practices that need to end for Trap events to be regarded as fair and true sporting events.

 

This thread shows a bigger problem ....

In the past .... banks like these would fill with target only, new shooters, and 'family' that traveled with the serious shooters.

Now .... those 'shooters', squad and bank fillers, are not interested. They have been 'kicked-to-the-curb' by the narrow-minded self-serving people fighting for all they can get. When was the last time they were made to feel important, not just some 'extra' to fill the 'mid-way' with the sharks trying to get in their pocket, and maybe a ribbon for being the only young, left-handed, one-eye shooter in attendance. When I started shooting, at a young age, some of the biggest shooters of the time gave me FREE direction/lessons. Would it kill anyone now to have a FREE day for the 'Great-One's' to give back to those who feed them ????

Banks like those are nothing new ... those forced to shoot them changed.

 

If you or anyone wants to PRESQUAD to shoot early, the computer squads you, you get what position, and squad the computer squads you.

An alphabetical listing is posted in various locations, so you can see when and where you will be shooting by event.

RJ Stuart will not have any personal input on selection process.

This was done several years at Vandalia, in the past.

This will alleviate the jams in squading. You just give name and Yardage, You have already been classified, computer has this info.

This is a computer generation.

GB DLS

 

RJ Staurt is not very accomadating to the shooters, He thinks its his way or no way and the shooters need to stand their ground against him to get this problem changed. Zimmie

 

I don't think you will ever change Bubba.
He has been like that since forever.
But good luck.

It nice to not have to deal with him at the Grand any longer.

 

Need to start with Osta officers and the trap field manager. I know Mr Jack Fishburn dont wont to lose any entries. Zimmie

 

I personally feel all banks should be open, if those banks do not fill so what, we shoot around them. Some of the less wiser will shoot them.

RJ not opening banks, should be exposed to management. Maybe we will need another
company to offer their services.

This is a competitive world.

GB DLS

 

Two years prior at the Cardinal, we had a full squad to shoot a doubles event. We couldn't sign up as a full squad because they didn't want to open another squad. That meant we'd have to split up and fill in vacancies here and there to shoot at all! All of us declined that event! That "my way or the hiway" attitude sucks!

HAP

 

I skipped some events at this years Ohio State Shoot because of the 5,6,7 problem. I got tired of running to the CEB in the rain, to hear banks 5,6, and 7 are the only ones available. The CC is one of my favorite places to shoot and I renewed my campsite for next year, but if this problem is to get worse, I may not attend in the future. I have no problem with an honest drawing of banks on the morning of the events.

 

When club operators become aware of any less than ideal traps, drawing for bank traps should be mandatory on the mornings event.

Here in Tucson, I know of no less than ideal banks but management always draws banks anyway!! Great move!!

HAP

 

I passed on the Ohio state shoot this year and will continue to pass until this issue of not opening a new squad on the bank I want changes. I think the only fair way to fix the squadding problem is draw banks the morning of the shoot. Offer presquadding but draw banks the morning of the event. If I'm paying I would like to shoot where and with whom I choose. If not I guess I'll stay home and go fishing.

 

I agree with 16gun you pay your money you should have that right. If there's a problem with a set of banks it should be rectified. We never had that problem at Vandalia, good back ground on all traps. Have heard this argument from a lot of shooters, if and when I shoot there I will avoid these banks.

 

fix the banks,put the shot screen in the background problem fixed,

 

Sure 16gun. You still proud of that vette? Are you going to keep just shooting that bunker stuff. Kind of funny that silly post above considering you could care less about the topic. Great opportunity to score points with the Sparta Only Channel & Cardinal Hater group.

 

On the contrary butterly I do care. I drove 45 minutes Tuesday to pre squad for a buddy and myself. Was told I could only squad for bank 5,6,7 no others. I was told I couldn't start a new squad on the bank I wanted until the day of the shoot. You shouldn't allow any bank then to be signed up for until the day of the shoot. The (CC) isn't picking the bank I shoot if Im paying, period. Yep still like the vette. No didn't mean to give any points to Sparta, haven't shot there, never will, but CC needs to fix the 5,6,7 bank issue. (minor that it is) JMO

 

Bubba always did things his way whether it was Florida, Pennsylvania, Ohio or the Grand if you didn't like it or doing things his way "TOUGH" he is not shooter (customer) friendly, he has cost clubs many shooter participation over the years. That's just the way it is or has been until it somehow changes. If I'm paying the bill I would like the opportunity to choose where and when I shoot.

 

16gun---your story is bs. You are a bunker shooter.

You live up the road and could not get a squad. Tell a better story.

 

I like the statement " we never had the problem at Vandalia" all I have ever heard was the bathrooms were a dump and there were airplanes in the background and it was crowded .This was before my time but of all the places I have gone Sparta is first class.
Monty

 

Romie/Monty..........the thread is about squadding I think. I hear there are probs getting your favorite bank at Sparta.

 

Butterfly. I understood from hkmlog32 it's the background on these banks.and I don't care where is is, Sparta just happens to be only a 6 hour drive.

 

This whole issue could be resolved by killing those dam tree toads and clearing the woods or by drawing for banks. What is so hard about drawing for banks?

 

Drawing for banks would work for me.

 

Until the Stuart issue is resolved nothing will change. There are many fine programs with many fine people that can run a shoot usually at less cost to the facility, he is not the only game in town.

Lefty

 

Thanks Gary. I think Butterly has me confused with someone else. I don't shoot bunker. I do agree with Lefty above though, until Stuart is gone I don't see this 5,6,7 issue changing. Jerry

 

Lefty,

I notice you don't complain too much about RJ when he is in your neighborhood. Not that no one else doesn't notice. Change you name to Cardinal hater. Just a suggestion.

 

16gun
Got your pm stating we know each other. We do. You hate some of the people at the CC. You despise the mods. You hate the site and yet the mods allow you to post your hate. Obviously it is an open forum. Not always a good thing.

You are close to the CC but you cant get a squad. Give it a rest.

 

Butterly, you said we know each other in the PM I sent you. If so you know me better than that! Stop with the BS. I have an issue with CC way of pre-squadding people. Let's let it go at that. Jerry

 

Family - I have a problem with the way Stuart runs things no matter where he is and have for years. For supposedly hating CC I sure shoot a lot of targets there, I have shot more in a day then you have in the last two shoots. But, hey it's your site you can call me anything you want?

Lefty

 

hi Lefty,

Your hatred for all that is CC is well documented. You could paste and copy where you complained about RJ at your home state. Even make it easier. Paste and copy where you were saying something nice about the CC. Should be easy right?

I was taking pictures of the CC promoting it. Try again with the you love the CC crap.

You have 81 posts. Show us that post that says "I am not a CC hater."

Tell your pals on the "Sparta Only" channel we said hi and keep lurking.

 

FG - sorry to disappoint you but I'm not cutting and pasting anything. You show me where I said I hated or even disliked CC. You just go on making up stuff like normal.

You sure are a promoter, you post pictures that only about 15 people see. You make up a phony conversation that would be a embarrassment if Mr. Fishburn saw it. The last thing he needs is you helping him out.

He has a very nice facility but it's not perfect. By the way I saw where a shooter who was upset over the bank 5,6,7 Stuart fiasco, just gave away his premium camping spot. This shooter was huge in youth shooting, had a large number of kids he brought to the CC every shoot. Failure to recognize the problem is costing them paying customers, but you have a love affair with Stuart so he can do no wrong.

So if someone visits here and comments he is a " lurker". Have you always been so insecure? I don't think those on the other site give a rats butt what you are doing. Be sure to check under your bed tonite, might be a lurker or two hiding out there.

By the way I would have got back sooner but I was shooting those dreaded ATA targets, you know the ones you and friends hate.

Lefty

 

Good answer Leftout. I checked also. Cant find a place where you said something remotely good about the CC.

Not that facts are important but you will not find where I endorsed RJ Stuart. Not that it matters. I would be in favor of drawing for banks. I am just a weekend shooter. So of course I would be in favor of that.

The last batch had around 2040 views and will get more. You did say only 15 right. (not that facts matter)

I see how the pictures you mentioned would anger you. Pictures of folks having fun with their families. Walking their dog. Not exactly what you wanted to see.

You hatred is quite obvious. Did it grow with the post about Gipson calling Jack? I bet that frosted your britches. Stay tuned.....

I haven't finished that dream.

 

Left--anger management issues.?

Now that is a funny post. You know 70% of that probably happened. lol Just in case he does not have it framed , I will fax him a copy in the am.