Letter Writing Campaign to Bring Back 3 Hole Targets

So how is the letter writing campaign coming along to bring back 3 hole targets?

Is anyone keeping track of how many letters have been sent to President Taylor?

Obviously 1 or 2 letters would have little affect.

Are you using a standardized form or is each person writing there own letter?

I think if the EC received 500 or 1000 letters they would be hard to ignore.

Please keep us updated on your progress.

 

One e-mail here.

I let them know I appreciated all the work they are doing for the betterment of the ATA.

 

As per rules of the ATA- - - If you were the only person in the state of Rhode Island that shot registered targets your vote would be worth as much as all the shooters in Ohio or PA .

Hint: sign your name as if you were from a small state.....the letter will have more impact.

 

Thats the way it should be. Every area of the USA has a vote instead of a couple of States.

Believe it or not there is more to the trapshooting world than Ohio and Pennsylvania.

 

Leonidas, in you infinite wisdom, you have one shooter with 2500 times more power than another person. That is a statement that cold only come from a civil rocket scientist.

This is probably the biggest issue in the ATA. The marketing is done by a few for a few. This is how we get targets that are too soft. This is how we fail to get oversight. This shows how we could spend our money to promote a shoot that is far from the trapshooting population.

Another point Leonidas' statement shows...It is why the CC is so successful. It is why there is a move to join PITA in some of the major shooting populations.

 

First thing, no one cares if you bring PITA to the CC. More power to you. Repeating the same verse over and over can only come from a rocket scientist!

Second thing, Why on gods green earth should one area of shooters have more power than the rest of the shooters in the country? Believe me that are not to many people from other area of the country think Ohio and Pennsylvania should determine the fate of everyone.

Equal vote for each State is ONLY fair for everyone!

 

Answer: Unlike what the ATA's minority in power thinks....we all deserve an equal vote.

The shooters as whole should get to vote. The minority in charge fears this.

Equal vote for each voter is fair for everyone. Again the minority fears this.

Leonidas makes it clear how he and the minority feel about everyone having an equal say.

 

PITA is PITA because many years ago someone got their panties in a knot and took their ball and went home.That could happen again, I don't think it's needed as long as we the shooters have a little say.

 

Two Dogs

For once we agree. We the shooters do not have a say as Leonidas demonstrates.

 

FG,

Joseph Goebbels would be proud of you, campaigning to put all the power in one little area.

Every shooter has a say.

1. You elect your state delegate.

2. Your state delegate is supposed to represent their constituents wishes.

If you are so upset about your delegates performance maybe you should run for the position.

 

The Delegates are sitting in line waiting for their turn to get in another line (EC) for a new gun at the members expense if and when they ever become president ... If they do not do what they are told and vote the way they are told to they will be run out of Dodge never so be seen or heard from again, no matter what the people who they represent want ... The ATA and the BOD does not represent the shooters, the shooters in fact represent the ATA ... The little grass roots clubs are what support the ATA and expand the membership not the other way around ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

wpt...

I will agree with your last statement about the little grass roots club.

That is the type of club Family Guy wants to take the vote away and give it to the big clubs so to speak.

 

Are we sure none of the Delegates are looking out for the shooters best interest?
They are all motivated by the chance at a free gun?

 

Admittedly none is a pretty broad brush, very few would probably be closer to right ... They get money from the State organizations to attend the meeting at the Grand from most states ... Once they go from that line (BOD) to the line formed by the EC, "then they are in line for a new gun when they end their year as president of the Assoc." ... If you can ever get a profit and loss statement it should show on that ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Does anyone really expect a write in request no matter from how many will get anything changed. Some people should take off the rose coloured glasses. In my opinion nothing will change unless it come from the top.

 

Scott...the fact above is balanced with the house of representatives which is the opposite. That balance of powers does not exist in the ATA.

Another problem is the lopsided effect wherein the VP's, BOD, and EC are recycled cronies. Getting them out is nearly impossible. That is why the ATA could whore out the name of our biggest shoot to a bunch of cronies aligned with felon Blagojevich. This was done without any repercussion other than nearly destroying registered shooting.

Last year you would have been booted from a website for this blasphemy.

 

I can't help but wonder if you people would be talking like this if the grand was still in Ohio. I bet not!!

 

Oooops....I forgot. With all that power in the hands of a few and out of the hands of the many there can be some ominous results.

Without oversight you could possibly have extensive cheating. Not that it could happen in the ATA.

 

Get with the times Leonidas. You hate that there are three shoots in Ohio this year that may be larger than the shoot in Illinois. All that read your posts can see this is what really irks you.

You have big shoot envy. Ohio and PA have the big shoots!

All the corruption in the land of Chicago could not force Illinois down the shooters' throats. Get over it.

 

LOL not even close mister, not even close

 

Where the Grand is located really does not matter, this is pertaining to the ATA and how its operated by those on the BOD and EC ... If it is in Sparta, Vandalia, Dubai , or Afganistan it would not matter really ... Most people who felt like they got had when the Grand was moved to Sparta are well past that and over it ... Some will never be and many will never attend the Grand because of it, personal choice comes into play there ... They used to say build it and they will come, turned out that was not true based on the Grand attendance... Then someone said show them with your wallet ( by not attending) and it seems like that is working based on the depleted attendance ... People now rely on the Cardinal Center for what they consider to be their Grand, same money at a different location, probably most of the same shooters ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Writing letters to the ec is a complete waste of time and postage. You might as well write it on stationary that comes in convenient rolls that tear easily into little squares, then use it for its intended purpose.

During my shooting career the ATA has always been a good ole boys club, and it most likely always will be. It has been carefully orchestrated over many years to remove the members from having any control. An example being life members losing their voting rights. Someone hit the nail on the head above when they wrote the bod and ec are a bunch of recycled cronies that are nearly impossible to get rid of. The whole thing including the way the all american team is selected is geared against the blue collar member. They have done such an extraordinary job at maintaining control, that it will take years, mabee decades,if ever to get any changes considered that many members feel necessary. It may be too late by then.

This puts we eastern shooters between a rock and a hard spot! We need ATA targets to shoot our state shoots and shoots we want to attend, so we have to at least shoot a minimal amount of registered ATA. They very well know at the present time anyway, that they are in the drivers seat. Right now a big shoot in the east(PITA or anything else)would fail for sure without cross registration because you would not draw the ATA's most loyal membership. A shooter could only cross register enough targets to be eligible for the shoots they want to attend, but I would bet the cross registration would be stopped the instant it effected their revenue. Right now (most likely the rest of my lifetime)we are forced to comply, so we might as well make the best of it. I can forsee no other choice at this time.

 

Mike; I would like your definition of a "good ole boy". The way you and others throw the term around there must be a place that produces them in bunches. Over the years I have seen many different presidents of the ATA and have taken the time to get know several. All seemed to want the best for the shooters, I have not always agreed with them and have told them so, just because you and your friends don't agree with them doesn't make them bad. I have not seen one that was worried about the gun at the end of their term. When the EC visits a shoot do you take the time to talk to them and express your concerns. Do you talk to your delegate to see where he stands on issues? Do you talk to the head of the Handicap committee, who is from Ohio and shoots at CC?

How would you like the All American team qualifications to be?? There are many blue collar members on the team now. Is it easier to travel if you have the finances, sure, but life is full of examples of ones financial success being held against him. Look around at the "blue collar" guys shooting $10,000+ trap guns, the poor me card doesn't always play.

I take it you want to do away with target requirements for large shoots. Change you own state, I believe you can without ATA sanction. As far as large shoots do you just want to allow anyone to shoot?? How do you classify them? You claim cheating now, what would you get with a open door policy. Does PITA have target requirement??

Life and the ATA is not one big conspiracy, but it is there so we must blame someone for our problems and dislikes . Don't blindly buy all the venom and hate that is spewed here by a very small group, a minority of Ohio shooters and shooters elsewhere. I know you are one of the good guys.

I know you have told me to take a hike before and you can again, see you down the road somewhere.

Lefty

 

Lefty: This American Trapshooter site is not a very small group, it started because the other site was very, very one sided. It was run by a group of Tite Knit ATA Group, if you disagreed and wrote a post concerning target angles you got piled on and bashed un-merciously. There was no looking back at what has happened, Since the narrow targets the TOP DOGS got even richer.

Was the 37 degree angle target decision masked as helping the short yardage shooter break higher scores? No absolutely no, the GAH was won by more short yardage shooters, I feel it was done so the long yardage shooter had a better chance to win the GAH.

It was masked very well as helping the short yardage shooter.

The proper word WAS MASKED, in the aftermath, who did it help the most?
Dr.longshot

 

Now that is just funny. No one is getting richer off 2 hole targets. The options and prizes are way down.

So no one wrote a letter?

Just more internet rants. LOL

 

Yes, many ATA officials including Presidents on down have the best interests of the organization in mind. I've known a few over the years and they have my utmost respect. Others, like a former President who I watched personally carry his scoresheet into the office for an upward adjustment for him and the rest of his squad-less so. We all should remember former ED, Dr. Frank Rively who attempted to expose those deep, dark secret corridors and was promptly removed!

 

Example:
If you do not agree with Obama and his ideas, agenda's etc you are a racist ...

Anyone who does not agree with the way the ATA is or has been operating is spewing "Venom and Hate", and would be considered to be Anti ATA, BOD, EC etc ... There was a lot of hoop la prior to the move to Sparta, many of the people who were against and and let it be known they were against it were ignored and treated as if they didn't exist ... People said to Hell with them, they are not needed for the Grand to be a success ... This has proved to be totally wrong based on the attendance numbers since the move ... There are those who comprimised their feelings and went any way ... Some have since quit because of the lack of accomidations in the immediate area and the additional traveling ... This is not "Venom and Hate" its the facts as it was, has been, and still is yet today ... People talked about all of the major corporations who were going to develope the area in and about Sparta, ONE Major Corp stepped up and did build a Motel ... I have long since quit letting it bother me that the membership got snookered and feel it is what it is and shall remain without my and many others support (our wallets) ... People were saying for every one shooter that they lose they will make it and more up from the shooters in the area, this has also proven to not be true ... Many people are less concerned with what was done as compared to the way it was done ... That goes for the financials as they are today and who gets paid what for being a volunteer ... The EC and or BOD would of probably did some traveling if they were not involved but not get supplimented to some degree ... If there is nothing wrong with the way its being done why is it not made public so the members can see whats going on and who's getting what from the organization ..? I plan on stopping by this summer, not to shoot, just to check out the facility because it was not there the 3 times I was in Sparta in my lifetime ... Probably stop by and shoot at the Cardinal Center on my way back home, and check it out also ... Might arm wrestle with Doc Longshot just for kicks, not to sure about Dysinger ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

The ATA asked Dr.Rively to check into things, and the office girls gave him information they knew that was going on, that should be corrected, when he disclosed some changes and discussed with the EC, BOD, and when they called an executive session, and did not include him, I feel that was a no,no, he as an office holder should be in on all executive meetings, but he Dr.Rively supposedly eavesdropped, to learn what has been going on, and they fired him, when he was doing a job he was hired to do, RED FLAGS WENT UP to all ATA members, they the members including me did not like what happened. Some of what he learned were expenses that were not in the IRS 501(c3) guidelines. Expenses were another item
that were being re-imbursed. A lot of information was flying around at the Grand Week of shooting, a man that was doing what he was hired to do, and information of a lot goings on came to the top, Like Cream
Dr. Frank Rively is a business man and knows what is good or bad. I feel and felt he was wrongly fired.
We the members supported Dr. Frank Rively.
Dr.longshot

 

Dude trust me you don't speak for the majority of members.

 

Last week DLS was going to start a grass roots movement to try and get the targets back to a 1970's standard. He was going to start a letter writing campaign as part of this movement.

Alas he is back to just typing nonsense and claiming he is trying to make a difference.

 

Didn't the delegates vote against the 2 yard reduction? Results?

 

The first year it was an EC decision to give the 2 yard reduction.
The second year I believe the Delegates were given a chance to vote.

 

Lefty,
I will try to answer a few of your questions. Using the term "good ole boy" was a mistake, I didn't mean to insult many friends and acquaintances of sterling character with whom I would trust my life that may fit some of the "good ole boy" criteria. I meant the structure of your beloved organization. The top positions in the organization are hand picked by their predecessors. I am sure many good people have served in these positions past and present. With no new blood I feel the agenda gets stagnant. Someone who doesnot share the present agenda has about as much chance of implimenting any change as a fart in a windstorm. The Frank Rively fiasco is a perfect example of this. The biggest problem of the ATA is lack of transparency. The ATA needs to take the bull by the horns on the issues like the the thousands of targets being taken away from shooters from two clubs in the east and let the members know they are looking out in their interest against fraud. This needs done quickly, not next year. It's like big brother looking out for us for our own good, and we as members are to dumb to understand anyway. With the communications available today, this time factor is absurd. I guess remaining in the stone age has some benefits, like they will forget by next year and won't even look under the rug.

No one is playing the poor me card that I know, I may not have the wherewithall that you and you cronies have, but I get along fine. I do know a fine shooter who could certainly make the team if he could get the time off work and his expenses for travel were paid like the ec.

I don't do a lot of socializing when I attend shoots because of having over 90% hearing loss. Not looking for sympathy, again I get along fine. I have talked to my delegate and he seams a fine person always walking the extra mile to communicate with me as all of the directors of our state shoot.

I don't recall mentioning target requirements. In fact I was disappointed at the Cardinal Center for not having any for two of their shoots, while having them at the Ohio State Shoot. Then I realized the baggers would have shot the few hundred targets and been there anyway. By the way, how did the large target requirment work out at the Grand last year? Bet it ridded the place of any sandbaggers!

Speaking of the Grand, I attended in 2010. It is a beautiful shooting complex. I would have returned if the Ata hadn't taken over the camping during the weeks of the grand. The price of camping doubled with the ata doing this. It's hard to have much confidense in an organization that can't run something for less than twice the price of what the state of Illinois charged! Waiting for a parking space in front of the Central Entry building in 100+degree weather and looking to my left and seeing an empty lot full of reserved parking signs did little to enhance my experience either! Said in jest but true, I may even go back anyway!

As far as seeing me down the road, you have the advantage, I don't know who to look for and I certainly won't hear you coming!

 

Neil,
I certainly won't argue the intricacies of the interworkings of the ATA with a person who has your vast personal experience, but I have a couple of questions I know you can answer.
1. How are the VP's picked and out of what pool?
2. You stated your zone elected you their president and the ec just had to accept it. My question is, how does your zone solely elect you president of the ATA? Thanks for your answer.

 

Thank you Neil for your time and effort with your reply.

 

How about we bring this topic up at our state meetings to get our delegates to bring it up at meetings at the Grand. Then if it don't go we know who did and who did not.

 

The members have to write the letters not me, I suggested it, I opened the campaign, I gave them the address, the rest is up to the guys who want the Target angles changed,

 

Doc, did you send one? If so lets see it so the guys who want to send on can have an idea what you want written. If you don't want anyone to see it at least say so, please.