Eliminating the FTF rule

If the ATA eliminated the FTF rule, what would be the result ?

 

FTF rule came about because of a great shooter named Daro Handy among others. Mainly before Pat Trap's with interrupters came along. If a target came out in a quadrant he was not prepared to shoot at, he would call slow or fast target. I saw him do it over 15 times in a 25 bird shoot off event in Reno one time. It can still be done today without the FTF rule. I don't think it should be changed. It would just lead to more cheating a waste of a lot of targets.

 

As a habitual flincher, I vote to eliminate the FTF rule. If you call for the bird and it comes out in a timely manner, you either break it or it is a "lost bird".

 

Bama, I don't think that is quite correct. If you go back and look at prior threads on this subject you will find everyone's favorite ATA big shot, Neil Winston, explain his/the ATA's rationale for this dumb rule. Allegedly, they were worried about safety because the old rule allowed a "do over" for certain FTFs like a bad shell or a mechanical failure (and yes, they did allow turning down a bad pull which was much of the root of the problem as you point out with Handy -among others-). They were afraid that the pullers were being tasked with going to the shooter and having them open the gun and make a determination. Pullers not qualified to make those decisions coupled with the complications of release triggers.
So, they came up with the FTF.
But it was all a pretense. They really just wanted to give the old men a do over for their old nerve flinches and continue to dumb down the sport and make it easier. Same bunch who instituted the mandatory 2 hole and shortened the distance.
But its old news now. Just part of the dying "sport."
Jake

 

I shoot some shells made by Federal, I have had lots of Failures with factory ammo, if you can show the puller a dent on a primer--you should not be penalized--get zero failures with Remington STS's--yesterday had 2 with estates--their bases were dished

 

Believe what you like, but it was common knowledge the FTF rule was enacted because of Handy and others like him that took advantage of the slow/fast pull rule. We even called it the "Handy" rule. LOL It was easy to time the old Winchester traps with the right squad, and if one got out of sync with them.....Well just call a few fast/slow targets and get back in sync. The Pat Traps represented a different problem with the interrupters, ERGO: The greater number of slow/ fast calls. Been there and done that old friend.

 

Participation trophy's -- and smiley face buttons for all --Just wait - its coming

 

Jakes right on.

As for shells, "They Ain't What They Used To Be".... period.
I shot paper Federals a lot in the 70s. Never had a bad one.
Only bad new shell I've had was a AA. Bad primer.
Took it to Winchester Bldg. and gave it to a rep. He thanked me and took it in the back never to return.
Never even offered a replacement shell.

Regards.....Gerald

 

We've had those for decades or at least as long as i've been shooting. The little enamel pins they give out for showing up. Years ago I had a vest covered with them and sew on patches of gun clubs, and 25-200 target accomplishments. Everyone wore them with (I believe) a sense of pride. They've gone out of favor in recent times.

 

Bama, Those pins got so heavy on my vest adding them year after year, I resorted to putting them on a cardboard display

Some designs were just duplicated year after year with just the ATA President's name changed along with the date ..LOL

 

That's neat, I think most of mine went in the trash years ago. I wish I'd have kept them. You should put yours in a shadow box, and mount them on the wall.

 

I recall a gentleman at Litchfield Park AZ when the spring grand (I think it was) was there who had about a bazillion pins on a couple big boards and bought/sold/traded with everyone from anywhere

 

Talk about misfires. In the last year or 2 I have bought quite a few Remington Gun Clubs. (I know, you get what you pay for but just for casual shooting they are often amazingly cheap.)
Anyway, I have had about 6 that the primer has gone off and .... nothing. I wear ear plugs with earmuff type protection over it. I never even heard a pop.
The first time, I opened the gun and the shell case popped out and I thought, "oh, I somehow put or left a fired shell in there." (I was shooting doubles in a very fast squad.) I loaded another shell and closed the gun and started to shoulder it when a voice in my head stopped me. Opened the gun and could not see light. The wad was lodged just behind the choke. I started shaking thinking how close I came to blowing up that barrel. I sure as hell should know better but even after all these years I almost made that horrible mistake.
Well, since then it has happened about 5 times. Yesterday it happened again and when I pushed out the wad it was stuck pretty tight just past the chamber. Wad was kind of screwed up. I think it may have been sideways in the shell and lodged that way in the barrel.
I will never buy another box of gunclubs. But I can't believe that Remington hasn't been in the news as being sued for blowing up a gun (or several) with injuries involved. I know better and damn near made the mistake. The general public is pretty clueless.
Jake

 

I shot mostly Fed papers too. In the late 70's I took 2 bad AA's in and they gave me 2 boxes and an apology. In 1980 I took in 4 bad shells, smiled and told him they cost me the Grand.

He said, "Yeah, you and about 50 other guys.", and gave me 4 shells. Now there's some marketing strategy for you.

I told him to keep the shells and walked out.

 

"Some designs were just duplicated year after year with just the ATA President's name changed along with the date."

Along with their name it should have had a big gold $ on it.

 

Bama,

Funny you mentioned that about Shadow boxes.

Since that picture was taken, we have begun to do just as you mentioned, and some are in shadow boxes, some just frames.

Separating them into years has been fun.

Flyer, I will keep my eye out for the Gold $, could come along now that you have given them that idea..ha ha ha

 

Federal Shells w/deep Primers won't fire, And some Remington Nitro 27s w/deep primers.

GB............................DLS

 

I do not think the failure to fire rule is a bad thing the problem is it gets abused because the score keepers many times do not know how or when to apply it .. This is purely a lack of training and not the fault of the score keepers in any way ...
When I started there was no such thing as a failure to fire rule, if you shot and dented the primer you got it over ONCE not over and over again, also if the wad was in the barrel you got a do over for a blooper shell ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Bama, You are wrong about the interruptors in various machines. The old win. 1524 hand set had the only interruptor that was not readable. The pat has an electrical unit that is easy to read right from the factory. Management must change the pegs in the Pat to change the rotation of interruption. Most never do. Roger C.

 

OK, you're the expert.

 

I would not say expert. I repaired and built trap and skeet machines for over 20 years. I do have a small amount of knowledge about the equipment. Thank You. Roger C.

 

This is the correct approach for a sporting competition. Sorry your gun didn't fire, but too bad. Working equipment is part of the sport. If Jeff Gordon's car stops running, they don't throw a red flag until they can fix the car.

 

smoking357, I agree, I do flinch, but rarely. I have what I refer to a an eye flinch. If I do not get a solid look at the target out of the house. I will either flinch, or just stop. Either I blinked at the wrong time, or I called before I was ready, or it was a fast pull.(they do happen for various reasons). Then I make sure I'm getting a good look at the target and may not flinch again for the whole shoot. Roger C.

 

Just go back to live bird rules. If it comes out of the trap, it has to be shot. All ATA targets should be wobble, including doubles.... and crank em up to about 55 MPH. Oh, have them omit a clapping of the wings sound.