Is the All American Team Really the All American Team??

Looks like Matt Bartholow will not make the All American Team even though he has 1095 All American points. He failed to acquire the number of targets required by the ATA. Why give all American points if they are meaningless?? I understand Pat Lamont got his targets in so he should be safe, phew!

 

Was the All American Team always based on points or was it based on the average of the three disciplines at some point?

 

If those Bartholow Boys don't make it, its fixed and should be challenged and eliminated totally and completely ... The ATA obviously has some major problems in the operations standards ... I would bet even money on either one of those two young men against any one shooting in the ranks of the ATA today ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

The ATA All-American point system ranks below the late Jimmy Robinson's personal appointments. We now have so-called All-Americans classified in D Singles in some category cases and C Doubles in others. Shoot the target requirements with cheap wins and voila-you're there. Pathetic!

 

oleolliedawg,
The point system is welfare for the few that can afford to shoot a lot of point awarded events. If you have the time and money to hit a lot of the shoots you can use the best 7 out of the total. That leaves a lot of blue collar shooters out of the running. I read some where that only about 1200 shooters were qualified to vie for the team. With 265 places, that means 1 in 5 made the team.
I wonder if this is a part of the fantastic direction that the game is headed in? Roger C.

 

It is a shame that the Blue Collar worker cannot get recognition for their accomplishments.

WE all know several of these types who can out shoot some of the All Americans any day of the week.

One who comes to mind is Peter Tsmentzis from Ontario Canada.

Peter is an outstanding shooter who can hold his own against anyone, and because he has to tend his family farm most all year, he just doesn't have the time to travel to the shoots as much as he would like.

We all know people like Peter, and as long as they know that we appreciate their talents, I guess that is what means the most.

Matt is in the same boat, as well as younger folks who because of schooling, cannot get out to shoots as much as they would like to.

They are top notch shooters and hopefully someday can join the ranks with more targets.

I could only wish there could be a solution to the problem for Blue Collar folks, but the rules are the rules, and it is what it is.

 

I'd like to see the names of some of those people you're talking about.

 

Well, we can start by getting rid of the STUPID target requirement rule. If Matt can get enough points by shooting 3 tournaments, for example, that it would take others 7 events to accumulate then who is the better shooter? Who should be on the team?

Target requirements make sense if you are using an overall average. Under a points system it is plain stupid.

 

jbailey, All of their names are listed on the All American teams. Look them up in the average book. Roger C.

 

Lady 1 "D" Singles at the Southern Grand last year. Lady 1 "C" singles local state shoot. Based on averages. Spend your time looking up others!

 

Once the AA team made you apply to be on it (90's?) I didn't. Lucky Nightingale asked me why I didn't apply, he told me I had the third or forth most points. I told him if I had the points why should I apply. The AA team has been a joke for years. The good shooters know who the best are.. AA team's are very overrated in the schema of things.

I really wanted to be on the AA team and when I made my first one I was thrilled. I can't remember my last one, the thrill was gone. Brad

 

Being able to say you were on the AA first team for X numbers of years could help if you are an instructor. That's a selling point for them. However, shooters that do follow the sport know who the top shooters are. Unfortunately, not many shooter follow the sport closely.

 

This is quite interesting hearing this from the men's side of the equation. I knew in my first year shooting as a woman I could buy myself a place on the "team". To me it never looked like an honor especially on the category end. Some people take great pride in it and I would never want to lessen their accomplishment, but I never saw the point.

Tonya

 

Tonya,
It used to be an honor to be appointed to the team, now it is more like kissing you sister. The points are handed out like tootsie rolls. You do not have to be good, just shoot every day at an A A pointed shoot. Pick your 7 best shoots, and walla you are an all American. You just joined a big club as there are about 265 on the yearly team.
The AA points are another of the EC's follies. They are getting more targets from fewer shooters, when they should be striving for more shooters to replace the ones their fantastic direction has lost from the ranks of registered shooters.
Roger C.

 

Tonya this is one of the reasons I am so sure that the OSTA is making a big mistake in the AA points dominating the Ohio State program. Scrap Triple A, all the categories and go to a true class system. I suggest 7 or 8 classes but you need to divide them by percentage. It needs to be that you have an equal number of Ohio Shooters in each class, use the number from the year before to set the break point. Some years 98 might be class one some years 96, it depends on the Ohio shooters averages from that year before.

The way the ATA ordered Ohio State class system is today there are far more shooters under 80 than over 9850 and they have no chance. All AAA does is insulate some very good AA shooters and give them a special break. Look at the Cardinal shoots this year, some events AAA didn't have a 100 straight winner and the lower classes and cats did. Brad

 

This thread started with the unfortunate situation where the Bartholow boys were denied a birth on the All-American team because they didn't have enough targets to qualify. The ATA created this monster by handing out points in multiple meaningless categories to low quality shooters to justify their decision. Obviously the best of the best or our supposed All-Americans are not a true representation of the best trapshooting has to offer. I believe the ATA, since they've placed so much emphasis on points, should regard point totals as the sole criteria for All-American consideration. This additional crap like huge target requirements, virtually no one is able to attain, should be eliminated. Of course, when I discussed this with a former EC member yesterday he commented "just follow the money"! Forget the Bartholows and get more fees from the points chasers is the name of the new game. Then hand out silly recognition to so called ATA All-Americans who's only attribute is time and money.

 

Problem is that I talked to some AA and they all (the ones that I talked to) agree that target requirements makes not sense under the current point system. However, I am not sure how high up the chain they make their opinion know. I think if they all let the EC know the target requirement is a waste of time we might have some change, but then again that might be wishful thinking.

Some talented people have a life outside of trapshooting and may just not have the time or get enough vacation time to do all the shoots necessary to get all the targets in.

 

Guys, The AA points are an extension of the way the money is paid out. It is loaded for the few that can shoot full time. I have no problem with the people that can do this, but the average blue collar worker with a young family can not spend every spare moment shooting in order to make a watered down AA team. This action is how the EC is trying to keep up the income from shooter fees. That part seems to be working, but the sport as a whole is going in the dumper because of the poor way the the financial end is handled.
I feel the EC is more worried about the finances, and is side lining the shooter wants, for the money. Are they trying to build up enough money to build their own grounds? If they are they should not try to keep it a secret. The members have a right to know and help achieve that goal. Roger C.

 

Brad, I appreciate your reply. While I am a hard worker, I don't understand the ins ands outs of the trapshooting history etc.
I am not a fan of AAA. Everything is going the way of, "well, so and so does it, So..." I have hopes that the OSTA AND ATA can get a governing body that loves the sport. For now, it feels political. Not my specialty. Happy to have served and Happy to be done. LOL
Tonya

 

Tonya,

You hit it right on the head about politics, those on the EC, ED, and most of the BOD want to protect their position so they can take advantage of the membership by means of their position ... I do not think the original design was supposed to be as the current design is where the ED, EC and Good Ol' Boys club gets catered to like they are "Rock Stars" as they travel around to the shoots on the members money ... Integrity and Honor got swept aside for personal gain for and by the majority of those who are supposed to be care takers for the members Association ... I cannot recall the last time I talked to a shooter who was or who once was an ATA Member that has any much less a little bit of respect for the EC, ED and most of the BOD or their position ... WPT ... (YAC) ...