How to focus before you call for a target? Help!

I saw Brad's advice on just looking out and being prepared to see to see the target, but I have some questions and need some advice on how to lock in the sight picture before I call for the target. Here goes:

We are often told to “look at the target and the gun will follow.”

Question: Why isn’t this the case when we lift our head to look at the target because invariably when we lift our head we miss? Why doesn't the gun follow the target when we lift our head?

I find that there is a certain way that I have to look to be able to smoke the targets. If I line the beads right behind the other, I miss. If I look too much above the bead, I miss. I just have to look just above the front bead (without seeing the mid bead) with a soft focus and be ready to see the target then I smoke them. Problem is I just cannot lock in this sight picture. The minute I “look to see if I have it correct” I miss. Any advice?

 

Mike J,

Quit looking at the beads. Perfect your mount so that you are doing it the same way every time. You can not look at the beads and the target at the same time. Your eye can not focus in two places at once. The rest will come after the mount is perfected. Roger C.

 

Good advice, Roger. The problem is I get bored very fast practicing gun mount at home. When I am shooting, I get too "caught up" to get into a gun mount practice mode.

 

Mike, I lived in north east Ohio when I was just starting this sport. Winters are very bad there. I would go down to my rec room. It was about 36 ft long. I would put a spot on the wall. I would close my eye and mount my gun. Then open my eyes, if I was not in a circle of less than 6 in. from my spot I would keep mounting. I did this 100 times every other day all winter. It works, believe me. If I was constantly in the same spot but not on target I would adjust my stock.

When you get tired of being in the also shot column, you will get with the program. Roger C.

 

You can practice mounting the gun one way at home and then find yourself doing it another way out there on the line.
A kid can't practice swinging a ball bat at home very well since he can't see a ball coming his way. He can swing the
bat but it is at nothing. He just can't swing the bat right without a target, like a baseball would be coming 98 mph his
way. The kid relies on his ordinary alert perception to clobber the ball. It's the same ordinary mind that will see the
pigeon correctly as it comes put of the house. You just have to know that you will see it right. That was the same
ability to see what's there that kept you from going off the road on the way to the club that day. You had to get the
feel of how to drive the car and you have to get the feel of how to swing the gun.

 

How long did it take when you were a kid to watch for the release of the ball with your peripheral vision and then lock onto it right away with your central vision? Not too long, maybe what, three seconds? Who taught you as a kid to do that? Nobody. It was no mystery to you about how to use your eyes to see the ball. But then you grew up and wonder how to see a clay pigeon coming out of a bunker. A kid has about as much time to hit a fastball as Britt Robinson took before making clay pigeons disintegrate that had come out of the house.

 

When you "lift your head" I think more times than not you are also dropping your gun a little away from your face. Watch other shooters and you will see that as they lift they pull a little down with their fore hand maybe a lot, maybe ever so little bit, but that action is enough to stop your gun motion.

If you really want to understand pointing take the beads off your gun and just shoot over the barrel. When i was a kid I never had a BB gun with any sights on it. I learned to shoot by just looking at what I wanted to hit, no matter setting or moving, I just learned that way.

I'm left eyed master eyed and have always shot two eyed, maybe that's one of the reasons I shoot so fast is that my dominate eye has nothing in front of it and it is easy for me to pick up the target faster, I don't know about that but maybe.

Another way to practice picking up the target is scoring a round. It sounds simple but where and when you see the bird when scoring is how you should see it shooting. Anytime you are watching someone else shoot you always see it faster than the shooter.

I know a lot of shooters who swear by Terry Jordan's wall charts, maybe try one of them in the winter. My shooting in the winter was always about 2 or 3 birds a round lower on average than the summer. Brad

 

Thanks Brad. You are a great resource for this site!

 

Black Horse,
There is no comparison between gun mount and bat swinging. If you can not mount your gun in the same place every time you will never be a good shooter. If you must look at the beads to adjust the gun, it does not fit you properly. Once you have a consistant mount and a gun that fits your body, you do not need beads any more. Your gun will shoot where the eye is focused. Practice is the only way to perfect any game of skill. Gun fit is the only way achieve having the gun and eye focused in the same place. Any thing less and you will never be better than an also ran. Roger C.

 

I agree with the hand pulling the barrel down when one lifts his head. Don't grip the forearm...ever. I watched Daro Handy place his thumb under the forearm, making it impossible to grip the forearm. Personally, I point my thumb and fingers outward when holding the forearm, with the exception of my index finger, which I point toward the end of the barrel. If I miss a target, the first thing I check is my forearm grip, especially if the barrel seems to bounce when I miss. Also, keeping my palm directly underneath the forearm seems to help keep the gun on a correct plane when I swing left or right, and at the right speed. Maybe, because I'm not pushing or pulling with my forearm hand. Just guessing...?

 

No comparison huh? The bat must fit too, or you can't hit diddly squat. I don't recall saying anything about looking at the beads. If the bat fits the batter he can really swing it and hit the ball hard. If the gun fits the shooter he can really swing it and hit the target hard. No comparison though I guess. OK.

 

To answer your first question,
If you lift your head, your gun is no longer the extension of your body, the barrel will not be pointed at where you're looking.

 

Black Horse,
Absolutely none. A bat is not swung in exactly the same place every time. If you do not know the basics of any game of skill, you are destined to just be one of the pack. Roger C.

 

Some athletes (and we ARE athletes) just don't have the psychological makeup to endure long periods of practice.
Those are the athletes that will never achieve Gold Medal status and sign $40M contracts.
The majority of trapshooters, as well as baseball players, golfers, tennis players, bicyclists, etc. fall into this category. It is just a fact of life that most of us will never be World Champions...and lack of willingness or the ability to make the necessary sacrifices is the reason.

All we can do is be the best we can and enjoy those little victories we achieve.

 

I agree. I'm a casual shooter. Although I managed couple 100s in the past 20 some years, I never spent the time and paid for any classes to make myself a better shooter. But I also don't get pissed when I miss, and I never blame on anything else than myself.

 

Oh so a shotgun is swung in the exact same place every time is that right? That's exactly what you insinuated. Oh man give me a break. You just don't get it do you? No sweat but you insist on yourself being so right while not really saying anything except that somebody else is wrong. Are all of your buddies going to pile on me now and sing along to your earth shaking words of wisdom?

 

Do not need any help with a shit stirrer, crawl back in your hole. the more you talk the dumber you sound. Roger C.

 

I know myself that if I lift my head the same time I'll stop my swing and shoot high, even if I don't stop the swing the gun will shoot high. Shoot at a pattern board looking straight down the barrel. Next lift head and shoot off the end of barrel and see how higher the pattern is.

 

--Hey mister, you are a brain dead idiot. You can shove your chicken-shit site up your sorry ass.

 

So, if I'm understanding your post correctly, you will never post here again?
And if you do, you will understand that we don't allow chickens to post, that we know of, so there can't be any of their droppings around here.

As far as your bat being the same as a shotgun analogy? Not unless I walk out in front of the house, turn around to face it, put the gun over my right shoulder "like a bat" and swing it trying to hit the target when it comes out.

Come to think of it that might be a new game. You would save on shells, don't need any, and after the initial outlay of money for the protective gear, helmet, chest protector, mask, hockey gloves, the cost wouldn't be that great. You could throw even a slower target, say 18 yards, and bring the angles in even more and the "shooter" would have to run back and forth swinging the gun by the barrels and try to hit the target.

For the handicap event the shooters that have gotten better on the 18 yard line would have to MOVE UP CLOSER to the trap house. That should take care of any ties and long shoot offs.

Your analogy has to be one of the craziest things that was ever posted on this site. In fact, if anyone believed your analogy that alone WOULD make this a "sorry ass" site.

Roger,
Sorry to hear about your ass.

 

TENDER horse, A little touchie are we? I know you are reading this, so suck it up buttercup, we are not buying into your B.S. comparison of the sports. Have you ever shot a gun or swung a bat? with your definition of the two, I'm afraid you have them mixed up. Stay on this site, we will educate you and then you will fit in with the rest of the posters that know what they are talking about. Roger C.

 

Free advice from consistent low average shooters is probably worth what you pay for it.

 

Yes, dry mounts are boring, but they will help increase your average, just do it.
Mount consistently and look deep. Pick a spot to look when on post 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and ALWAYS look there before calling for the bird.

 

I'm awake early so I'll reply.

When you posted that Roger could "shove this site up his ass" I figured you would never darken our doors again. And yet, here you are back. Now you want to take a swipe at the founding members. As one of those members let me respond.

As I posted earlier, your bat analogy was one of the dumbest ideas I have ever heard. How in the world could anyone with an IQ over 44 come up with that moronic idea? Swinging a friggin bat? You're serious? SWINGING A BASEBALL BAT! Batshit crazy that is for sure.

When I started reading that post I thought you were telling a joke and the story was going to have a great punch line at the end. Then I realized you were serious but it did have that effect. I did get a laugh out of it.

Now after telling one member to "shove this site up his ass" and calling the founding members "pr^*ks" it turns out YOU are the punchline.
BTW, you can say you pricked your finger but you can't say you fingered your prick.

You should make a video marketing your idea. You could sell it on one of the outdoor channels.

Trapshooting and Baseball, how mounting and shooting your shotgun is the same as swinging a bat.

That's right folks. You heard it here. This video will bring BOTH of your averages up. Learn how these two totally different games are really the same.
And if you order my video in the next 10 seconds I will send you my other great video at half price.

Weightlifting and Chess, one in the same.

A Baseball bat?

 

Tender horse, I notice the awards on your avatar, what flee market did you buy them at? Are they more of your B.S. that you are trying to spread on here. Roger C.

 

Mike:

Think of head lifting as like creating an imaginary adjustable rib change which raises the poi dramatically and the loss of any reference to windage all in the same mistake. If some kind of jerking down on the gun occurs like others have said; I would venture a NSWAG it is an attempt to counter the rapid acceleration of the gun which has to occur when you take the resistance supplied by your face away.

There are several motives for head lifting:

See/find the target,
See the target break (a kind of lack of proper follow through)
Get away from facial abuse before the gun hurts you when it goes bang.
Your mount is so uncomfortable you decide you want to be comforable before you finish the task at hand.

Select any or all which may apply in your case.

Now, change the “focus” of your practice mounting at home. Do not do it for what you see! Do it for what you feel! Do not use the beads as the judge of whether you got the mount correct. You want the brain to give you the thumbs up or down based on the sense of feel. Turn the lights off and close your eyes when you mount. Once you think you are getting it right in a consistent way you can turn the lights on. Continue to mount by feel with your eyes closed. Now open you eyes looking into a mirror. Seeing that your head, neck and eyes are interfacing with the gun the same way reinforces what the recoil pad shoulder interface feel told your brain.

Now add the trap house. I am not going to tell you where to hold your gun. That is as individual as what to order for dinner for a two eyed shooter. But think about this. That wood and metal out there in front of your nose is enough material to hide some target movement from you if you are holding/looking in a poorly selected location for you.

Stand on a vacant field and look at the house from each post. See imaginary targets leave the house in each path as if targets were really coming out of the house.

Now add the gun. Mount the empty gun over the house. Get your eyes off the beads and rib like Roger told you. Look around the gun out there in front of the house. You will still see the gun. You are just not tunnel vision on the gun anymore.

Now ask yourself if where you are holding the gun and the eyes will result in some target angles hiding behind or crossing under the gun. I guarantee if you are fixated (focused) on the rib/beads some targets are going to get the jump on you even if you did not hide them. Adjust your hold of gun and eyes as needed.

Now clear your mind of all the clutter and add ammunition.

 

The BB gun tip is gold !!

 

Holy cow mudpack! I never realized that Gold Medal trap shooters could sign $40M contracts!
If I had, I sure would have dedicated myself to more practice instead of going to college.
I will have to tell my son this may be an option.
Jake

 

I don't see what this refers to? Did some response to the earlier posts get deleted?
I thought nothing was deleted from this site unlike other places that love remaking history.
In fact, reading through this thread, there must be several things that have been deleted. What is up with that?
Honest.

 

Jakearoo, Only the poster can delete his own post. Unless, it was profane, or out right nasty. Then a mod can delete it.
Go back and look at the second post on this site. He was comparing gun mount to swinging a bat. Roger C.

 

Well, I saw that.
By the way, I actually think he was comparing seeing a target's flight to seeing a 98mph baseball and I think his point was to let the swinging of the bat or the gun take care of itself and to focus on the target. (Kind of like shooting off the end of the bb gun without sights, eh?)
Heck, when I was shooting my absolute best, mostly shooting bunker at that time, I blacked out the white front sight on my Perazzi because even the thought or glint of it could be a distraction that would cost a bird in that lightning game.
But Black Horse's responses I see don't make connective sense. (But there are a member or two I have on ignore. Maybe that is it.)
Thanks for the note.
Jake

 

Jakearoo, I blacked the sights out on my gun 25 years ago. When I ordered my new one I ask Krieghoff to put on black sights and they refused. Went back to black nail polish. Roger C.

 

Lots of athletes win Gold Medals in sports other than trapshooting. There is running, hockey, skiing, skating, boxing, swimming, equestrian, gymnastics, rowing.....I could go on and on. Those are the athletes my statement was referring to. Odds are neither you nor your son are in that category. I know I'm not.

 

mudpack, Trap shooters whine if they think some one is getting a few cases of shells. GOD forbid they should get a 40 mil. contract. Roger C.

 

Good analogy Brad. Come to think of it, I was a better shot with my BB gun than I am with my shotgun.