Fluidity of mind vs: Quiet Eye

I am starting to think that the concept of Quiet Eye is all wrong. Because it appears to be nothing more than the stoppage of the mind. The mind in it's natural state is fluid, meaning moving from one thing to another without stopping, which can be seen in the best shooters. Quiet Eye theory says precisely that holding the eyes still also stills the mind, because the eye "is the mind." Quiet Eye theory may be a rejection of much older knowledge, which is common these days when a staggering percentage of people reject all established knowledge and come up with crazy ideas and then worship them, thinking pf themselves as more enlightened than the men of yesterday.

 

Where did you get that from?

 

Just google 'Quiet Eye trapshooting,' or/ 'Quiet Eye golf' and see for yourself.

 

Thought so..the Internet. Did you invest in Harlan's video to see what he says about "Quiet Eye"?

 

No. Did you try to grasp what fluidity of mind is? Your mind would have to be fluid to do it. Did your mind stop once you invested in Harlan's video? Why don't you try to hit a fast thrown baseball with your eye's quiet?

 

No don't do that or you won't see it fast enough and get beaned by the ball just for trying. Did you ever see boys playing baseball against a fast pitcher? Yes, OK so did you ever see one of those boys dodge getting beaned with a fastball?Probably you did if you stuck around for a few innings. OK so those kids who avoided getting beaned; did they know anything about what Harlan said about Quiet Eye?

 

Oh Mr Mike J.: one more thing, sir, those kids who did get beaned by that fastball; their doggone eyes were too quiet!

 

My friend, the eye is not the mind. It's the brain that controls everything. The quiet eye concept is basically a soft focus where you look out into the field but do not have anything in sharp focus. The eye is in a stage where it is "ready to see."

 

I don't know anything about quiet eye or soft focus but I did play baseball, a catcher mostly, and think what every one is talking about is where to look for a target. The best way I can describe it to you is if you are scoring a round where do you "focus"?

I say you don't, you just look out over the trap for movement, then when the bird appears your eyes go to it. That is how I shoot trap. I don't see the beads, the rib, the background. I'm just looking out over the house for the movement, then my eyes move to the target and the gun follows. Somewhere in that time, if I'm right that day, I focus on the bird and break it.

I do know about the power of the mind though. When I am thinking about anything before I call pull I'll miss more times than not. If I'm relaxed and my mind is blank I got a much better chance doing what I described above. I just concentrate for about 2 sec as I'm mounting my gun. I do think that too many shooters try concentrating for the whole 25, the whole time everyone else is shooting and get burned out long before the hour that it takes to shoot 100 is over. Just try relaxing a little and have fun. Brad

 

Great advice Brad! I assume you look "below the barrel" and not above the rib as Harlan teaches. The thought per Harlan and Phil is that it is easier to go from a soft focus to a lock on the target than from a hard focus (where you are solidly looking at something before you call) to a lock on the target.

 

Brad - what do you do for your pre-shot routine? That is, from the time the shooter before you shoots to when you call for the target.

BTW, I re-read your post. I think you are describing the soft focus where you "look but do not see" before you call for the target.

 

Yes I think that is right except for the part about the brain. The brain is in the head but the mind is everywhere, including in the head.

 

My ex told me my mind was always someplace else and on something else ... God, How I don't miss her ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Soft focus is when you are with your wife at a restaurant and a hot woman is sitting in the booth next to you.

 

For me it's 100% mental anymore and being able to Silence my Brain is tough. In the Early 2000's, had I been more selective about when/where I shot, I'd have easily been AAA27AAA in multiple years. The reason was 100% focus and the added pressure of larger shoots. Then throw in a Divorce, Bankruptcy and several Job changes and it honestly got the best of me. Now anxiety and fear of failure seem to creep in and not allow me to always keep my mind where it should be. As some have stated, you only need to focus for a few seconds from Mount to Shot, but for me what you do in between is just as important. I've always found it easier to "Soft Focus" over the barrels and switched to this in 1999 after a Frank Hoppe clinic. It was the only thing he had me change and every time I try looking under the barrel, I almost always "lose" the target thru the barrels. I then try to do almost anything to keep my mind away from Negative Thoughts, but that has yet to happen consistently. A perfect example was this past Sunday when after being down 9 after 50 in Caps, I missed 2 in the next 48, to only start thinking about being ahead of a Top Shooter by 2 and promptly missed the last 2 targets thinking about beating him. There was nothing at stake with the accomplishment, and yet I made it so.

 

I've always said that the difference between a winner and a very good trap shooter is that the winner isn't AFRAID to succeed.. Also most AA shooters, just like DEDPAIR explains, shoot afraid to miss instead of wanting to break the bird. When I figured that out is when I become real dangerous at a big shoot. I had fun.

For concentration in 1985 I started listing to music when I shot. I liked 60's and 70's rock and folk music and found it relaxed me and took my mind off the bigness of an event. This really helped me at the Grand where there would be someone watching me shoot standing almost in my hip pocket and talking close behind me, that used to bug me. After 1985 and Music, those were gone from my worry list and I got into enjoying breaking targets. That is the mental part of trap shooting that you are talking about. I've always thought that was my secret edge at big shoots my mental attitude. This may also explain why I loved shooting in the wind so much. It's a lot easier to win if the competition is busy beating themselves.

This attitude was also what helped me in shoot offs at Vandalia, the ham in me liked to shoot in front of the big crowd and I felt I was actually a better shot in a shoot off than the event because of my focus and having fun. I wanted to be out there, and when I stopped feeling that way it was time for me to stop shooting.

As far as looking I don't focus under the barrel I just look out. Shooters tend to get hung up on meaningless stuff. Just look for the bird and shoot it. Whenever I felt I wasn't on my best I'd go back to the basic's for me. Of course I did lot's of things with foot position, hands on the gun, elbow heights and such but that was years into my shooting and I knew what each little adjustment would do. A few hundred thousand targets should teach a thinking man something. Brad

 

I have studied Quiet Eye for years, and fact is, most folks and trainers do not know what they are talking about when they try to explain or instruct in the use of Quiet Eye in shooting. I recommend this book, written by the person that actually DID discover and develop this technique to quickly acquire the target in one's Primary Vision.

Everybody wants this book until they see the price. Sit down before you order it, assuming you can find it. I was fortunate in finding a good used copy.

As one who has trained Olympians, I can say with authority that the quicker one acquires the target, the more time they have to make a smooth, measured move with the gun to the target.

 

Very interesting looking book. Especially when Shooting Coach said most explain Quiet Eye wrong. I have had that impression before.
Very interesting what Brad Dysinger said too. When I have done good I certainly was having fun breaking them. I saw Mr D
down in Phoenix in about 1978. I was amazed at how he made it look so easy. I would not trade the experience of seeing a good many big dogs shoot back in the 70's. First one I ever saw was Reggie Jachimowski at the Illinois State Shoot in Springfield in 75'. I watched him shoot 25 from 27 yards. That was the first time I'd ever seen anybody do that. Two weeks later I did it myself in practice. Reggie was such a cool dude. I was impressed, and inspired. That was a good thing.
Like Leo said in his video, every shooter has his own problems and his own special ability at the same time. Those guys were all thinking men. They said important things in simple language, and some still are, like that dude from Ohio on this thread.

 

Travis Iksic having fun.

 

When you watch Travis Iksic shoot it looks like he is driving a car, or eating an ice cream cone, or watching re-runs of Oprah on TV. He doesn't look like he is doing any particular thing. In this photo which was popped of him in about 2016 he looks like he is leaning on a picnic table watching a hummingbird or something. He looks like he could be thinking about the time his training wheels started to wobble and caused him to crash his bicycle. He doesn't look like he is in a trance like most shooters do.

 

I would describe what shooting coach is talking about as peripheral vision. It is how I look out towards the trap house. I'm WATCHING for movement. When I see it I then HARD focus on the target. I very very seldom ever shoot a broken bird, even the first shot of doubles. Also when I was shooting my best I shot very fast but it seemed slow to me.

One thing to try is have someone stand beside you and pull the target without you calling for it. This will help your focus and also keep you from moving the gun before you see the bird. I think that the number one reason a shooter with lots of targets under his belt misses is moving the gun before the bird comes out. Most will say they raised their head. But the question should be why did I raise my head. You just don't raise your head for no reason. I think in reality a shooter is actually dropping their gun away from their face so they can SEE the bird. This makes you stop your swing too.

If you watch shooters they move the gun on their call of pull not on what their eyes see. That is like trying to hit a baseball before the pitcher throws it. You need to have a still gun if you want to have long runs of targets.

The thing about making it look easy is that when you are shooting good it is easy, it's when things are going badly that it gets hard and that is when I used to try and go back to MY basics. Every shooter needs a place (their basics) to revert to when times get hard. Brad

 

I think I will pay attention to that thing of making sure my gun does not move before the disc is identified. No trap club is open every day in these parts so I will have to wait awhile. Drives me nuts sometimes waiting in this echo chamber of the ticking clock.. Wouldn't even be mumbling on here if I could be out on the line somewhere instead.

 

Fluidity, that must mean uncontrolled urination, Pissing your panties.

GB.........................DLS

 

You can tell all that from a photo of a man breaking a trap target??

 

Brad has it dead right. You must first see the target in your peripheral vision. The reactive brain (which is at least three times faster than the cognitive brain) runs peripheral vision. Peripheral vision is twice as fast as your primary vision.

Ideally, you see the target in your peripheral vision. Your Autopilot goes into action in as little as 50 milliseconds, starts the gun moving to intercept the target as you lock on and zero in with your primary vision. Very shortly thereafter, it is time to fire the gun. Autopilot can do all these things so quickly that the target appears to slow down.

Your reactive brain (Autopilot) is your survival mechanism, and does not (cannot) make many mistakes. If IT runs the gun, then you break a lot of targets with very little thought.

If you THINK about it, you miss a lot of targets.

 

Yes, for you that's what it means. If you like your wet panties you can keep your wet panties.

 

Yes, he doesn't look like he is in a trance does he? He doesn't keep his eyes fixed out there between shots. He doesn't pay much attention to anything out there between shots, even looks around to the left, to the right, behind him too. One of the absolute very best in the whole country. Go figure

 

Brad explained it to me best one day when he said when you are scoring or watching a squad of 27 yarders shoot the targets always look slow. That is because you are looking higher than you do when you call for the target.

 

They look slower because scorers and spectators are much further away than the shooters.
At least they are at the clubs where I shoot.

 

That what shooting coach said is true. Same holds true for our conscious (Maybe cognitive) and sub conscious processing. Involuntary processing moves much faster and processes many more bits of information, in many directions at the same time.

Think about what happens to our vision and our processing when we are tired and get into a long stare. Our eyes are open, yet we don't see anything. That is until movement catches our eye so to speak, and it starts our visual processing, snapping us out of the trance. Our brains stop processing all thought, and any of our senses. I used our visual processing for this explanation because it fits what we are talking about, but it could really be any of our senses to do so.

The only way our eyes can see an image for a prolonged amount of time is if something in the image is moving. If it is still, our eyes will shift back and forth very quickly, in order to see the image. When we get into a stare, neither is happening. That makes the eyes go into what is commonly referred to as a soft focus. It really is the beginning of a stare, where the image processing is stalling because of no movement and no hard focus on a moving object.

When we allow our brains to go into that stare mode right before calling for the bird, which is part of the routine, so no real thought is being implemented, the target movement snaps your visual processing into action first peripherally, then it tracks it to the central two degree cone of central focus for the hard focus. This happens why, because the target is moving, which allows us to focus very clearly on the target as it moves across the flight angle, past stationary objects.

If while that target is in flight and we allow any conscious processing (Thought, or any of our other senses) to occur during that target flight other than visual, it detours or blocks our central visual focus processing. Visual processing is done in the back side of our brains. Also, if it happens right before we call pull, such as thought, and we do not allow our brains to go dormant, central visual focus may never catch up fully to clear focus (concentration on the target), before we pull the trigger. That usually results in the scorer yelling that dreaded word, Loss! Or maybe, Lost!

Also, think about this really deep. When we listen very intently to something, what happens to our vision? If we are in deep thought, what do we see while doing so? When listening to someone talk, what happens when something catches our eyes, and visual processing takes over, do we then have to ask, "What did you say now"? What about when thought interrupts during the conversation?

So, what does this mean? It means that because the target is moving, every other thing we do required to shoot and break that target, is based off of constant visual information feed. Anytime that is interrupted, or diminished we know what happens.

Good shooting.

https://biau.org/about-brain-injuries/cognitive-skills-of-the-brain/

 

The Quiet Eye works in all sports, especially true in self initiated targeting sports (clay target shooting). There are two basic issues that cause difficulty: 1. Few people truly understand what it is trying to do. 2. Fewer understand how to teach it and train with it to achieve maximum success. Vickars books do a good job of explaining the phenomenon, but they don't explain how/why it works or how to best implement it. Trap, skeet, sporting, international skeet, bunker, basketball, golf, all benefit.