POLL: Be Included in The Group For the Betterment of the ATA :POLL:

Please list yourself to be known here.
Gary Bryant, Dr.longshot ,for the betterment of the ATA
Go back to original target settings, Remove 18 yd hdcp. 20 yd minimum hdcp.
Go back to original classifications, Mens, Lady, Junior, Sub Junior, Vet, Sr.Vet, Chair Shtr.
No hi gun Lewis classes.
Mandatory Ford Purses On GAH, and State Hdcp Championships. Are only a few bucks, $5.00 I think they were, if you are lucky and run a 25 strt you are in a shoot off, you break a 100 strt you win 2 Ford Purses 1st and 5th.
Others are being shot off by long run.

Allow Calcuttas ( my idea ) State Trap Association to get 2% of gross entry.

 

Gary,
I think it would be important to find out how many of the shooters even remember those days before trying to conduct a poll regarding them ... There appears to be a lot of new shooters (newer) as well as many who don't stick around very long ... Personally, I understand where you are coming from while many may not ... I have always felt that "Championship" events should have mandatory purses, at least at the bigger shoots ... wpt ... (yac) ...

 

How about if all of Ohio did all the above for 5 years and then get back to the trapshooting community with actual facts and figures.

That way we can see if it works and if it doesn't no one of importance will be effected.

 

Gary I can see most of your request but I would have the Calcutta's 2% go to the club or state organization as the ATA gets enough now.

 

How can you have a Calcutta with percentage going to state organization or the ATA when calcuttas are illegal in most places?

 

SHHHHHHHH .... ! wpt ... (yac) ...

 

I stated to allow calcuttas (ATA To Allow) Calcuttas, New Rule puts money back into the game, OK the 2% to go to the State Organization
WPT:A lot of shooter have heard about them but never witnessed them, maybe it would be refreshing to them?
Leonadis: We would want all states to participate to give it a fair showing, Especially your state of unknown origin, they may like it!!!
Ken Cerny: I liked your idea and incorporated it!!! Thanks
WPT: he are not going to keep it a secret, we want all to know and participate, if they don't want to participate, they do not have to.
Nudie: They would not be Illeagal, you do not read the threads do you? I said ( ALLOW CALCUTTAS )
ALL PLEASE READ THE COMPLETE WORDING OF THE THREAD, NOT JUST WHAT YOU WANT IT TO SAY OR MEAN please.

 

dr. longshot, I've talked to quite a few shooters in my state (some are all americans and a couple are hall of famers in both state and ATA) and they all agree that there are things that need to be changed. But one thing they all agree on is running around screaming insults to retired ATA delegates and a former president doesn't get you anything but peoples lack of respect for you and your minions.

Boycotting the ATA will result in nothing but harm for the trapshooting community. But like I stated, let Ohio try it first and let us know how that works out for ya!!

Also you brag about not shooting ATA targets so why on gods green earth do you even care what goes on concerning the ATA? It's over, done, kaput, let it go!!

 

Calcutta's are illegal in most states. Not that I think we need to let that stop us.

Hi gun lewis class is something the cub does it has nothing to do with the ATA But we can likely outlaw them.

I don't think we had sub juniors and chair shooters originally, but we can allow them.

I started on the 20 yard no reason to get any closer.

Mandatory Purses, I like it. If they don't like it they can pound sand.

 

So doc, is it that you want to ALLOW something that is illegal? You aren't promoting the idea of HAVING one, just ALLOWING them?

 

Who and where did any one say anything about boycotting the ATA , PLEASE ... I suggest people read what is written, do not read in between the line or add your thoughts until its in your response ... I had to miss something, somewhere ..? I have said all I care to say about it ... If you ask someone something and they answer your question you should expect to have to answer the same question about yourself ... Leonidas ... wpt ... (yac) ...

 

This happens a lot. Rick

 

Where's the poll?

 

How do Pro Golfers get the High Payouts?
How do Flyer Shooter get High Payouts?
And other shooting games?

 

Dr. I like your list. (except the 2% deal). Calcutta shoots were a blast. The Tri State (just east of Steubenville) was quite an event; shoot all day Saturday, big auction Saturday evening for the Calcutta, shoot for the real money on Sundays. I am sure being a Buckeye you shot the venue at some time.

 

Golf....Commercials and advertisers

Flyers....Entry fees, and sometimes the facility kicks in some starter money.

 

I can't believe you guys..ATA shooting is losing members at an alarming rate and you want to make the shooting harder for the average shooter.Like someone said earlier 50% of ATA shooters quit before they get to the 21 yd. line..
The calcutta's were great in the old days, lot of money...wake up...that was then..no money now...
I sat with Brad D. at the MTA and bidded with him...he made great money back then...now he doesn't compete now...NO MONEY...Your flogging a dead horse.
How did the CC get to be as big as it is today?..Skeet? archery? sporting clays? Or just maybe the ATA...

 

Dr longshot...There is no money in flyers unless your in Spain.
Golf has big sponsors and advertisers because they don't use guns.
When was the last time the Grand, or any other ATA event was televised?

 

The CC just happens to be in the middle of the heartland of trapshooting. Registered trapshooting is just an after thought in Ohio. The CC seems to push the rules on the targets. Dysinger as tournament director has been throwing 50 yard birds. (still too slow for those wanting a challenging target)

Before you tell the CC and Ohio and PA how to market shooting sports you may need to write a letter to the ATA. Be specific on why Sparta is such a failure. Tell them why the shoot that once had 5000 shooters will be lucky to be larger than any of the big 3 shoots at the Cardinal this year. Continue to explain why a shoot called the U.S. open in Sparta had 1/6 the shooters as the Buckeye.

Tell the ATA what a great idea it was to align themselves with the felon Blagojevich. You tell then two dogs. You know everything.

 

I know all about the failure that Sparta is,and I'm not trying to tell you how to market your shoots.The CC is doing just fine.

 

Gary if u are going to do a poll which u like to start a bunch. I would love to SEE the results. This is only possible if u PUT the poll in your post.

I challenge u to do this from now on. You may not like the answers a real poll will produce but at least you would really know how we all feel

 

I shot those shoots every year I could, always played the calcuttas, I loved the Tri-State Shoot, Tony Olivito was always there buying shooters

 

Would love to see Calcutta and spice things up... with out challenge wheres the fun?

 

If everyone was properly handicapped Calcuttas would be fun-today-not so much!

 

Calcuttas are a thing of the past,there is no more disposable money anymore.Back in the days of the real calcuttas the big dogs of the day always went for the top money, even super Brad went for over $3000.Now we are lucky to have that much total....

 

Two Dogs. Your response makes me think you are from an area of the country enjoying the easy targets. I assume you are from an area west of Indiana.

The huge calcuttas were mainly in the PA / OH areas. They were inundated by the blue collar shooters from those states. Making the targets easier enabling more ties and higher scores for those at the fence discouraged those shooters.

They were the same type shooter that only shot at Vandalia for a few days at a time. They slept in their cars. Whoring the name "grand" to Illinois meant one of their favorite shoots was gone. Many lost the interest to register the targets needed to enter the calcuttas.

During the bad times they still showed up. There was the year the steel mills shut down, Black Thursday, the recession of the early 80's, the gas shortage, and the dot com collapse. During those hard times the weekend warriors in the heartland of trapshooting kept calcuttas and the big pot shoots alive.

Those states with the weekend warriors.....OH and PA are still doing rather well. Registered shooting is merely an after thought in those states.

If you want the calcuttas you will have to bring back the weekend warriors. The hope or dream of the big pot kept them in the game.

 

FG...The big calcuttas I was talking about were at the Missouri Fall Handicap about 15 years ago.Ask Brad, he went there. Those were the days when on a windy day I won $3200. for a lone first 50 straight in caps.You will never see those numbers ever again because people don't have the money, and aren't playing any options.

The big money ATA shoots are long gone...

 

They are not playing options because their perception of winning is slim. The ATA pushed the blue collar shooters out of the game. The game is dummied down. You like that don't you? You like the outcome.

You don't think there is money. All that is left is those with the "BIG" money. Your pals decided to cater only to the wealthy and those chasing ATA points. The shoot in Illinois is not attracting the weekend shooters from the trap meccas. Shooters are not registering targets to go to a shoot that was once grand.

The tri state would have close to 30 k in the Calcutta. Vandalia could easily get 4500 in an event.

Quit blaming it on the economy. As I said earlier...

 

Stop living in the past ....You can NEVER go back....

 

Calcutta's are illegal.

harryone, how does complaining on a website and insulting others help your cause? It might hold water if there was some other action to remedy the complaints but there are none. Even the good dr refuses to post his letter to the ATA.

If the trapshooting is prospering in Ohio and PA like some say then what are the complaints really about with the ATA and the constant reference to Sparta? It's been posted on this site that the ATA shoots were only a small part of the shooting it those areas. So why does it consume the thoughts of a lot of posters on this site?

 

The ATA gets support from all of the clubs, there is no way around it so they cannot make them feel any degree of what's going on unless they quit shooting altogether, which many have made the choice to do ... The people of PA and Ohio might not shoot the Grand American in Sparta, which could be considerable numbers but they still support the ATA ... They choose to shoot the bigger shoots at Cardinal Center and probably spend less money with less traveling time, that don't make them all bad ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Well I am here to tell you that I know most of these shooters that want to go back to the days of harder targets ( 3 Hole ) aren't shooting handicap above an average of 88%Why in hell do they want to do that when they can't hit todays targets...

 

Two Dogs
Your post implies the better shooters at the back fence are not in favor of harder targets. Yes. And somehow that confuses you.

 

I would say that, and no I'm not confused at all..If you can't compete at the break point, why do you want harder targets?

 

Two Dogs....maybe the handicap system confuses you. There are limits on the shotgun performance and its ammo especially at longer yardages and harder angles.

The handicapping was designed to handicap. You still seem confused. Do you shoot trap?

 

TRAP?

 

Two Dogs,

You are only talking about the contestants at the minimum handicap yardage, correct?

Shoot well.

John

 

Consider this:

If we threw the harder 3 hole targets, there would still be "Big Dogs" like Harlen, Ricky, etc, etc. They shoot a whole lot more birds than we do, and have given a big chunk of their lives to trapshooting. There will always be special people in every sport. They have the mechanics and mental part of the game down pat.

But, at the smaller shoots, even some regional Grands, fewer 27 yarders would be a threat. Actually, there would probably be fewer 27 yarders period, cause guys like me would struggle to keep up our average, and be offered reductions which we would seriously have to consider, or....keep getting our butts kicked.

More shooters would have to consider reductions if they wanted to "win"or get yardage, and that would happen at every yardage. It would also be harder to get punches and move back, and reductions would be "earned" after 1000 or 1500 targets, not merely given away.

All of a sudden, past 27 yarders would be on the 24 or 25, or even closer and bounce back and forth as they got punches or reductions. And this would happen at every yardage group. As a result a 94 may win a cap event, and the handicap yardages would be more compacted into reality. Wind would affect scores even more.

The bad thing is egos would be damaged, and some may quit as they are faced with their real trapshooting abilities to deal with.

People these days don't want to face reality, it's easier to walk away, and I think some ATA officials have that same fear.

 

What Rosey said..

 

Get over your ego Two Dogs.

 

Ego?

 

If we ever went to the longer targets (50-52 yd, straight away from 1 and 5 ) the top dogs would still win a lot of handicap events maybe not as many and probably by lower scores. This would open the door to lower scores by a shooter having a good day not necessarily a 27 yarder. This in my opinion would be good for trapshooting. But then again as shown previously everyone has an opinion and is free to express it.

 

I don't know how to put a poll w/voting results, Maybe we should re-start the thread?
DLS

 

OLDPHART: Truer words have never been spoken, so true, we need that 3-5 years that I spoke about
of 44+ degree angles, and 50-52+ yard targets for a real trial, before pouring 3 yards of concrete, and save all gun clubs a lot of money pouring concrete.
Gary Bryant Dr.longshot

 

Lots of time, I have hdcp trophies from there too, it was a great place to shoot, the mafia people would be there to buy shooters too, no sh*t.
Dr.longshot

 

Gambling is legal in most states now with big Casino's
Dr.longshot

 

Statutes are somewhat different concerning Calcutta's as someone else is probably betting on you, you are not betting on yourself. In a casino, your gambling for yourself against the game/house/odds.

 

That also means that each club would have to buy a gambling license from the state. That equates to another expense that most clubs can not afford.

 

Gary and Leonidas, This isn't about Calcuttas. In the big picture, there are few Calcuttas. Like marathons, few to be found, No one wants to run the shoots.

We maybe have 2 within driving distance/year.