Non registered events and yardage

Hello:
Can you still get punched for additional yardage when shooting non registered events? Years ago, Vic Reinders would report any high handicap scores shot at non registered money shoots to the ATA. Any one know if this is still the case?

Steve Balistreri
Wauwatosa Wisconsin

 

Would that fall under "known ability".

 

Yes, known ability is a very wide brush that can be used both right and wrong. I received a yard one time after beating a couple of shooters from extremely long yardage. The club owner dropped a dime on me to one of his buddies on the EC informing him of my win. That's all it took for the extra yard. Neither my singles nor handicap averages at the time came close to demanding such any increase. Just the call was all it took.

HAP

 

Hap:
I never liked this "known ability" as anyone can have a good day of shooting. Here in my area, when I used to shoot tournaments I won my yardage one day shooting at the Waukesha gun club and I beat out a guy in a shoot off who was on the classification committee.

He never forgot about that day, and he over classified me every time I shot there for years as he never moved out of C class. Personally, I wish they would dump known ability accept in extreme cases.

Yes, there are cases where some shooters are sandbaggers but to dump targets to shoot in a particular yardage or class and then perform good enough to win on a given day or event in my opinion is very difficult to do.

To me, all it does is penalize an average shooter that had a particular good day of shooting. It promotes abuses in classifying if you have someone on the classification committee that has an ax to grind with you like in my particular situation.

I believe you should always be classified so you have an opportunity to still win, not be classified so high that you are just donating your money. Over classification is how shooters decide to leave the game.

It is a hard and difficult balancing act to classify shooters and sad to say it is a thankless job.

Steve

 

Not long ago I would shoot several "Calcutta" shoots per week, at different Clubs. Most of them would use "ATA" card/yardage as part of the program, and that causes problems.

Some would get an "ATA" card/yardage and never shoot "ATA"/registered targets to keep shooting close at these shoots. Others would get yardage at large shoots then sandbag/target manage to get reductions to compete closer at the Calcutta shoots.

"Over there" at one time I said this should not be done. "ATA" card/yardage should only apply at their shoots to stop this. It is one thing to shoot your actual ability yardage at an "ATA" event, it is another to compete against those who abuse the "ATA" membership for an advantage at non-ATA events.

And, yes, yardage by mail is currently given to try and correct the problem .... when the simple fix would be to stop the practice. Make people compete at the two different kinds of shoots in a manner that matches their ability at each. A "hot" Calcutta shooter may never win at an ATA event, even if they try, they two different animals.

 

user 1:
I basically agree with you. Let's face it, news spreads fast in the shooting sports and most regular tournament and non registered money shoots participants the sandbaggers are well known by most shooters.

I asked Vic Reinders one time why he did not hold non registered money shoots at the Waukesha gun club years ago when he was still running the club behind the scenes. He said, "it promotes chiselers coming to the club to shoot".

I reminded Vic who was an actual friend of mine that in his hey day of shooting he would travel by car, train, bus, boat, and
plane to attend a money shoot to participate and Vic did not respond.

Vic took extreme pleasure in reporting high non registered scores to the ATA. I am not saying that's good or bad but I do feel non registered money shoots and ATA shooting are different.
Steve

 

The "One Time" 2 yard reduction encouraged the non-registered shooting. And then our rocket scientist leaders did "Another One Time" reduction. This done without the BOD. Maybe Phil Kiner can explain his logic. Not that the group has made a good decision in the last 15 years.

 

In my opinion, the best way to "handicap/yardage" a shooter in a Calcutta where they auction the shooters, is base it on "what you sell for". The "hot" shooters get bid back, others shoot where there ability is at the time. It takes time to squad everyone after the auction, but it works well.

If time is a problem, then a "fixed" handicap where the Club makes everyone shoot the same yardage works. The Clubs using the "ATA" yardage as a guide, to make it easier on themselves, just puts more of a strain on trying to keep the "ATA yardage" honest.

 

user 1:
Interesting.
Steve

 

I like the 25 16s and what you break is your handicap. This is still shot at most calcuttas I attend, and attended.

GB.....................DLS

 

Gary:
I have also shot money shoots that your yardage is based on your 25 16's score. I have known some shooters that could be classified as sandbaggers. The big problem is how do you actually prove that someone is a sandbagger?

I knew of a guy who would shoot from the 20 yard line in registered tournaments and before he took the line rumor was that he would tell his friends the score he would break. Three times I saw him break 75 handicap targets straight and ended up with a score just below where he could be punched.

When he was confronted he said he get's nervous and starts dropping targets. One year, he went to the Grand in Ohio. The guy who classified him said it looked awful fishy as his 16 yard average was a shade below AA and he was on the 20 yard line.

He allowed him to shoot from the 20 because his scores on his card matched the computer exactly. As he left classification he said I hope I don't live to regret my decision. The same shooter took 9th place at the grand in the main handicap event?
Steve

 

SeniorSmoke: We had a college professor who shot a K-80 and at the big shoots like the TRI-State shoot at Stuebenville he played only the 25s and 50s and Lewis Class, he broke 75 straight, and ended up with an 89, collected on all 3 events, he did this for a few years and CHC nailed him to AA and 25 yard line, coded him. You all know him in Pa and Ohio, he wore blue Bib Overalls, had a big belly.

Gary Bryant....................Dr.longshot

 

Now that's some shooting. At least the guy here still shoots in the low 90's after he's 75 straight. Like I said, the guy here says he gets nervous when he's running a good score in the handicap. Now that I think of it, he doesn't get nervous when he shoots singles?
Steve