Bad Preimium shells

I bought two flats of the Premium Winchester Diamond Grade handicap 7 1/2 shells at the Michigan Team shootsewq from Roger. Price with tax $254.38 in Canadian dollars that is $342.21 or $17.11 per box in Can. dollars. I had several soft shells, pellets rolling around in the bottom of about 8 of the boxes some in each flat. I sent Winchester the same info, just a BS letter back from them.

not happy.

 

Winchester has been having problems all year with the AA line. Lots of lite strikes

 

Terry I'd say since you live in Commie Canada winchester doubts you'll be allowed to buy even shitty shells soon. Good luck.

 

Very sorry to hear that Terry. That’s the way things are going in that industry and nobody gives a damn that good people spending big money are getting ripped off for their junk.

 

If I received an unsatisfactory response from their "customer service" dept. I would try going higher up. You have nothing more to lose.
Email them back that you need the name of the head of that department. If they tell you that was the head department's response, tell them you want their boss.

Breeze airlines lost one of our bags on the last trip to Virginia Beach. I got nowhere for 2 days. Found the name and email for the President of the company and sent a nice well-mannered email directly to his address. I had an email and phone call from their customer relations dept. within 4 hours with instructions to purchase whatever I needed until they found and returned the bag. They reimbursed me over $800.00 for the clothes, and 2 fishing reels, that I had to buy while I waited for them to find and deliver it to the beach house. It's worth a try. Remember that old saying, the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

 

Years ago I had a bad batch of Remington Gun Clubs, Remington swapped them out with STS's;however, @ a registered shoot I had a lost target due to a STS "blooper"
I feel a shooter should not be penalized for a "Blooper" if they are shooting factory ammo. Flame on if u want to

 

The Sport is supposed to be similar to hunting. The rabbit wouldn’t come back if you chose crappy ammo.

 

Where did you read it’s supposed to be similar to hunting? Also- you aren’t competing with other hunters (normally) when you are hunting where one shell could make or break your competition.

 

Thing must have changed with Winchester. Three years ago, I had a shell problem, Sent a picture of the shells, lot numbers, and they sent a voucher for replacement. Thing must be getting tight. or they just don't give a dam. Any more.

 

I read it on the NSCA website

Sporting Clays History
Sporting Clays is the closest thing to actual field shooting of all shotgun sports. The sport dates back to England in the early 1900s when trap shooting used live pigeons. With the introduction of clay targets, the sport began to take on the popular form known today. But rather than using standardized distances, target angles and target sizes, sporting clays courses are designed to simulate the hunting of ducks, pheasants and even rabbits. Six different sizes of clay targets give the participant the experience of actual hunting conditions, so you can see why the sport is so popular with hunters.

NSCA was founded in March of 1989 and headquartered in San Antonio, Texas.

 

Sporting Clays not Trap

 

And in the “good old days” if you had 5 or 6 bad shells, (primer hit hard no ignition), during the year and took them to the Winchester building at the Grand in Vandalia they put 5 or 6 boxes on the counter and apologized.

Then in the early 80’s, if you had 5 or 6 bad shells they gave you 5 or 6 shells.

 

Yes…,trapshooting was designed to be like hunting. Thanks to History Buff and the online museum we know this…..

https://www.americantrapshooter.com/threads/evolution-of-flights-angles-101.976/

 

Trap shooting as we know it today started with live pigeon shooting. And that was all about money.

 

Yes, sporting clays was supposed to mimic hunting, but if you go to a larger sporting clays tournament these days, you won’t see too many shots you’ve seen while hunting. They’re making the targets harder in that sport…maybe trap will take a lesson from them one day.

I also didn’t see anything in History Buff’s previous thread that said trap came from hunting scenarios- like Flyersarebest, I believe it came from Live Bird shooting.

 

and you came to va beach and didn't look me up? I would have taken you to nas oceana for some games!

 

trap (and skeet) is about repetition and endurance. the win was usually determined on that 200th shot.
in skeet....the 500th shot.
instead of making it harder, they both went the wrong way to boost participation for those who cant last that long.
in other words...its become wussified.

 

We used to shoot a lot of Sporting targets when it first started around here. It was a fun game to shoot with your buddies. $25.00 for 100 targets. Play skins for a few dollars and win enough to pay for the day.
Shot out of boats, standing in a pit blind, 10 target flurries, rabbits, and battue targets. A laugh a minute.

Then, we decided to join and shoot registered Sporting. Went to zone shoots and a state shoot or two. I even won my A class at the zone at Nemacolin. And I can tell you that some of the targets they threw in those shoots were nowhere near hunting. As fellow member Shamus always said,
“Nothing with a heartbeat flys like that target”

 

Late 90's I had a few bad AA shells at the Grand in one of the preliminary singles. After the event I took them to the Winchester building where they were completely uninterested. I started shooting STS's with the next event and never looked back.

 

First Paragraph


The History of Target Flights & Angles

Discussions about the flights and angles of targets took place many years before the advent of inanimate targets (glass balls & clay pigeons). Sportsmen who hunted birds in the field and/or shot live-birds released from traps recognized that more shots were taken at left and right quartering birds than any other direction of flight.

Also

In the 1878 edition of Field, Cover and Trap Shooting, Captain Adam H. Bogardus, world champion shot, in discussing the rules for glass ball shooting and how to set up his patented glass ball trap, says that clubs should three traps and arrange them so “the shooter gets both right and left quarter shots and one straight back shot, and every sportsman is aware that he will get more shots of that kind in the field than any other.”

 

Ok, I stand corrected- I still stand by the fact that clay target shooting today is pretty far removed from any type of hunting. In this area, there’s not much small game to be had, so we don’t even get the guys warming up before hunting season at the clubs (very much, anyway).

 

Agreed- and some of the shots presented in sporting clays would be nothing more than a Hail Mary shot in the field. I don’t mind, I enjoy the challenge- but there are some sadistic target setters in that sport.

 

Depending on the degree of "bloop", the ATA allows the shooter to re-shoot that target.

 

MY wad cleared the barrel=LOST

 

Ouch.

 

I’ve shot a lot of Boss. Duplex loads are old tech that fails because pellets lose velocity at different rates due to size, effectively creating two separate patterns that are both thin. You can’t see it on paper as it’s a shot string issue, not a flat paper issue.

for ducks, shoot 4s. For geese, shoot 2s. Easy day…and pattern your gun.

 

Wrong thread? In any case, how much space is between the 2 different patterns in duplex loads?

 

If I'm shooting only teal (small ducks), I like 4's as well. Anything larger and I step up in size to #3's.
Geese get BB's. Talking steel shot, of course, not lead.(for lead shot, 405's sizes are okay)

 

Not enough to worry about. By the time the two sizes separate enough to matter, they have gone beyond effective range.
Neither birds nor clays have enough velocity to "fly into" a shotgun's shotstring, even if the shotstring is lengthened a little by duplex loads.
I see little value in duplex loads myself. Pick the shot size best suited to the size of the game you are targeting. Then, choose payload and choke for the max distance you'll be making your shots.

 

Oh I know there wasn’t much (if any) space between the “2 patterns”, just looking for truceball’s opinion on it. Then I wanted to ask what proof or experience that he had, but maybe he won’t be back around for a while.

 

Wow didn't know I had a 12 ga flame thrower, I was shooting in a league and a 10' flame was seen from my barrel--the range officer went to dislodge the wad ,but there was NO wad, I was almost given a LOST target but the scorer said-NO wad left the barrel--must of had a shell consisting of powder/primer NO wad & shot-it was a B&P F2 1oz 71/2 @1300fps

 

Don’t you think you would have noticed it being too light if there was no shot or wad in the shell? The crimp would have been mighty dished in, too…to the point where the powder would fall out, too.

 

Honestly. I picked the shell out of my box holder-never noticed weight, nor did I look @ the crimp

 

If flame came out of the muzzle, then the wad had to have left the barrel.
How would the scorer know that no wad had come out?
A shell consisting of only powder and primer would,
1. been noticed by you when you loaded it, since it would have weighed about 1/3 of what a properly-loaded shell would have weghed.
2. not have produced much if any flame, since the powder would have been blown out of the barrel unburnt. (that's been my experience, anyway)

I'd say something else was going on.