Dissatisfaction, Big-Time

There appears to be great dissatisfaction and frustration, among some of our members, with the operations of the ATA, and particularly with the EC.

Except for Terry Roush, I don't personally know the present EC members, although I have met previous EC members Gary Sherrod and Jeff Wagner, at John Hiter's funeral. However, I was very good friends with two previous EC members, Terry Boggs, President 1990, and John Hiter, who died just prior to his presidential induction date in 2010. I shot with both of these individuals a great number of times, and assisted them with their ATA duties at Georgia State, Southern Zone, and Grand American shoots, as alternate delegate, in the late seventies and early eighties, and as friend, then and since. We discussed many considerations about our sport, and had differing opinions on several occasions, but I can say, without any doubt in my mind, they did what they did because they believed it was for the betterment of the sport. Both of these folks loved ATA trapshooting, and wanted it to prosper. Others may have a different agenda, ego, pride, Grand parking (a little humor there), etc., I don't know.

Our delegates are our connection with the EC, and that is where our concerns and opinions need to be initially directed. My current delegate, who I believe also has the best interest of ATA trapshooting at heart, will listen if approached, even though our opinions might differ. At least, if you discuss your feelings with your delegate, you are expressing your concerns/opinions to an official. It may go no further, but if you don't connect with him/her, your concern/opinion definitely goes nowhere. Delegate contact information is, or at least it used to be, available on the ATA website. It appears that this information has been removed, or hidden. Maybe contacting your delegates is a good place to initiate a change, if you're dissatisfied with the status quo, which it appears many are. And, the delegates are elected, each year, by you, the membership.

I, personally, am thankful that there are people willing to take on the delegates' responsibilities. You don't make many friends there, and you can sure make a lot of enemies, but you do find out who your real friends are.

While I'm on a rant, let me express my dissatisfaction with the ATA website. The Rulebook should be a very obvious, large button, similar to the sponsors' buttons, as should be the Grand Program, not hidden in a small text sentence obscured somewhere in the middle of a group of small text sentences!

JMHO

Martin Henderson ATA #1402675

 

Martin great post.

 

The Delegate we had was like talking to a toaster, the guy who is the new Delegate is the old delegates buddy, back to the toaster ... The shooters around here named him "Run and hide" as thats what he did best unless writing an article for Trap and Field that was longer than the storys counts ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Bill
I guess the people like toast in Arizona.

 

Think about it ... some post past member numbers at 70,000 or more, and the record high number shooting the GAH is 5,000. The tunnel-vision is amazing ... good for the All American team, and all the attention they receive for their efforts ... but there are many many more who feel out in the cold.

What happened to offering something 'ready for use' by all .... instead of asking people to be active in doing all the evictions of the self-serving narrow-minded people with tunnel-vision. How many are interested in a used car that they have to evict the current owner, and install a new engine ????

The Grand, All American points, or attendance trinkets did not attract 70,000 or more members in the past, nor will it in the future. People will join, and stay, when it is in a functioning condition for their needs.

Build it and they will come ... not come and build it ... and if your stuck on people 'doing it on their own', make it easy for them to do it. Paid members should be able to vote by mail, e-mail, smoke signal, or any way they can or want to. The whole process will need faster action for many to live long enough to see any change.

Some need to look at a calendar, a century has passed and there are 'new ways' of doing things.

 

The EC didn't talk to my delegate before they threw the rulebook out and gave unearned reductions.

 

I thought the Great Yardage Reduction Event of the year ....whatever, was initiated by a well known champion trap shooters do delegate and approved by the board (voted delegates)??????

I think you guys give too much credit to the EC for your poor shooting abilities.

 

It was voted on by the delegates, turned down the first time by them, no vote the second time it came up and awarded regardless. That's my understanding on how this came about.

The EC knew there was a wide spread between the average shooters and the best shooters dominating the game of handicap. This was their way of "fixing" that so called problem instead of adding more difficulty for the best of the best. This was merely a band-aid approach in hopes of changing shooters perceptions of that domination.

I agree with that reduction for many reasons. First, it was far too easy to attain the max yardage prior to a rule change concerning the amount of shooters before yardage was awarded. It has helped a few be more competitive for a very short span of shooting before they were right back in the frying pan, so to speak.

Until we address trap shooting dominance by those so fortunate to attain it, punishing the average shooters with more difficulty certainly isn't the way to accomplish that goal.

HAP

 

It was the moving of 27 yarders to inside the 24 that was not right.

 

Robb, I know of a 27 yard long time shooter that if moved to the 18 still wouldn't shoot a competitive score, more likely than not, even from the 16!!

HAP

 

Hap, Agreed, I know shooters like that as well but I also know a few that were given a license to steal. And steal they have done.

 

HAP,

Wouldn't the review process or a request to his delegate (to be approved by the E.C.) for a yardage reduction based on his past shooting have resolved that matter?

Overall the reduction, it seems to me, while intended provide fairness to most handicap shooters, also gave some with well-known ability, a sanctioned reduction to a closer shooting position where they absolutely did not belong, and in some cases, allowed them to walk off with major trophies. That did not go over well with those who also believed those shooters were given an unfair advantage . . . . just the opposite of what was intended.

And, regarding the post by robb . . . . . the Executive Committee . . . . without BOD approval to waive that rule (Y code) . . . . . allowed previous 27 yarders, for the first time in the history of the 27, to be moved closer. My comment is considerate of the exemption for Vets and Sr. Vets and/or others who qualify.

 

Hap,
You promised you would not tell ... Oh well, cats out of the bag now ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Thanks, HistoryBuff my point exactly. The Y code was there for a reason.

 

Ken, the man I posted about above doesn't want any reductions, regardless of his scores!

I also know of a AAA shooter that took advantage of the EC's yardage equalization maneuver. He was building his new gun and shot terrible enough with it long enough to qualify for those reductions and he took them all! He won major handicap events and is now back on his regular yardage, at the 27. He wins occasionally from there also! Think I'll go look up his handicap averages right now and edit my post.

HAP

 

No need to edit for me HAP. Most of the time we agree on any given subject but glad you pointed out the shooter's decision to refuse his reduction.

I usually refused my first reduction, thus remaining on the 27, but if it came around again, I took it, usually only to have a good score in short time, which put me right back there. Those of us who refuse our reductions have no business complaining about not winning. We made the decision to stay where we cannot compete except maybe for the once a year good score that gets us a trophy and honorary yardage. As you know, I'm not for mandatory reductions like many think is best. I want that decision making in the hands of the shooter. If they have a reason to stay at their yardage that's their business but they don't have a complaint about unfairness.

I'm not competitive from the back fence but always seemed to get yardage on the occasional good score. And, I've never complained about it. When I do pop that top score . . . . . . if ever . . . . . I will be one proud shooter, who accomplished it from a great distance. That, is the ultimate achievement in my view.

 

Thanks Kenny!

Most of us part timers would be much better shots if we dedicated the work necessary to maintain our averages like the best shooters do. That is totally out of the question for me with the health issues I have. I get very few days in a months shooting that's pain free allowing me to shoot somewhat well. I've taken all the reductions I've earned from the 27 to the 23! I'm shooting at the 25 now and like many others, still looking for that magical pain free day to shoot a good handicap score. Hopefully at the Grand the next couple weeks!!

I'm not for mandatory reductions either but would if we had a new higher goal set for those mastering the max today which would only apply to those shooters. In such a way it wouldn't have any effect on the average Joes shooting I must add.

HAP

 

A shooter from a state shot good scores and earned yardage and was good at Sgls. Hdcp. And doubles was not allowed on the All American Team because he did not compete in 3 or more other State Shoots Is not fair in my Personal Opinion.

To qualify for the ATA All American Team shooter should only need WINS IN HIS STATE to be on that team.

He had the ability but maybe not the funds or the Time To Travel To Other States because he was a Family Man.

The ATA points system is just a way for the ATA to gain more MONEY, THATS ALL. It serves no other purpose.

Gary Bryant Dr.longshot

 

HAP,

Hoping for you to get feeling better and I will also be watching those big score you're gonna post at the GRAND. Shoot well friend and enjoy the fun. I sure did while it lasted.

 

I know several shooters that can shoot on there home court with the best but are average only at other shoots. I agree the cost and time is an issue but you are incorrect and their is valad reason for the rule ....that is if you want to have a true All American.