What would be wrong with a 50mph Target?

This would make those narrower targets a little more COMPETETIVE,if they the ( BOD & EC ) i would not widen the angles.

This would be an easy thing to do if the Pat Trap can throw them that fast.

Gary Bryant Dr.longshot

 

Dear Gary

We set certain Pat traps to throw a 60 + MPH target by adding a third band. Pat makes longer bolts for this procedure. Pats are used for the TN State Junior Olympics, and the folks in charge, shooters, and parents seem quite happy with the targets thrown.

Everything MUST be right on the Pat for this monumental increase in target speed. The Pheasant Target (Sporting Clays) is recommended to give reliable target presentation with minimum breakage. Worn or mis-adjusted throwing arm rubbers, brakes, brushes or O-rings will make your day less than cheerful.

This accelerates wear and tear on the machine and hydraulic pump. They whine when they have to stretch THREE Pat bands. The old style pumps with the belt and metal reservoir get the Slowskies. A machine gun squad would have a long, frustrating day on an older setup.

Problem number 1. The Pheasant Target is heavier, to survive high speed launches from Sporting Clays machines throwing stiff targets. Might not be allowable under ATA rules.

Problem number 2. I am NOT going to slam anyone or take the thread to the toilet, but truth is, most folks can't hit the 44 MPH target reliably.

I hope I responded in a respectful manner. If the ATA were to do this, it would cost the clubs and/or State Assn's a bunch of money.

Our State Assn' and our club have a symbiotic relationship. Their machines and CVR's, our houses, split cost of parts and service. The State Trap Director, my best friend in the whole world, is the Steward of the Assn's investment, and I am the gopher for service and repair. Between the two of use, we can make a Pat and CVR system run.

 

Shootingcoach: Thanks for the information, was thinking of a way to make targets more competitive if (ATA, BOD, EC) did not go to wider angles, we do not want to stress the Pat Trap, not speaking of a 60mph target, but is 50 mph doable, with trap as is? Maybe 43-44mph mandatory speed should be adhered to, as this was a NW specification that he wrote about several years ago, maybe longer if my memory is correct.

We need a stable target, especially in doubles, how much wider would this make doubles targets? How wide specifically in ANGLE?


Gary Bryant Dr.longshot

 

Until the shooters decide they want tougher targets and a change in the current program, and until they elect people into positions of power to make the changes they want, there will be no changes.

Most of the shooters want easy, high average targets. They guard the averages viciously. They don't play games, they just pound out 16 yd targets to keep thier average up. Do anything that might lower it and you will be set upon with a vengence.

I don't care how good a suggestion anyone has, until the mindset is changed, it isn't going to happen.

This is the reason why sporting clays is drawing the younger shooters.

It doesn't matter what was done in the past, or why it was changed, or who was running what when it happened. If the shooters don't want what is going on and they won't change it, they get what they deserve. Just like D.C., we allowed what and who to sit in power and are unwilling to do anything about it, we got everything we allowed to happen.

It works at the shooter level too.

IMHO

 

How would further handicapping those deemed to have mastered our game have any negative effect on singles and doubles scores or averages?

Isn't that what was done in our prior life as competitive trap shooters to improve our games reputation of not having to be near perfect to win, place or show? How many dominate shooters do we actually need? That list is growing by leaps and bounds today.

HAP

 

The majority of shooters today have never shot 3 hole, 50 yard targets let alone try to turn them loose on targets at 50MPH, which would be nothing short of a disaster ... The game has been dummed down and they still cannot retain members let alone entice shooters to play the money which at one time was more or less the norm for a lot of shooters ... The Top Gun's are still going to be the Top Gun's and well they should be having paod their dues over the years in practice, persitance, and putting the time in to get it right ... There are ways to equalize things to an extent by separation of the Top Guns from the average shooters by classification ... This would eliminate the need for several extra yards of concrete to be poured to create the separation ... Sooner or later the Top Guns are going to be doing the same thing at 30 yards as they do today at the 27 so whats the point ..? Make handicap a true handicap and eliminate the 18, 19, 20, 21 yardlines and or even more for a starting point for handicap ... Eliminate all of the added catagorys and trophys and get back to reality for a change ... Make winning worth while and let everyone have a chance at having their day and be something to be proud of ... Handing out prizes to show up don't really sit well even with those who get them if they have some degree of pride ... There is no doubt need for changes, you cannot continue as it or it won't be for long ... The numbers tell the story, read them and weep ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Dear Gary

As one who has "experimented" with the Pat, even a 50 MPH target will stretch two bands quickly, would still put in three bands. At a maximum of 50 MPH, the Pat should hold up a long time. This is close to the doubles setting and throwing one target. One can reliably use standard targets, but things like throwing arm rubber, brake adj with good rubber and steel backer, and a good brush would still be cardinal.

Rob about hit it on the head. The folks who do NOT want a challenge would roar like a wounded lion, those of us who DO like a challenge have gravitated to the Sporting Course.

I take frustrations out on my fellow Sporting Shooters by breaking targets with the Idiot Stick (410) they can't seem to hit with their Duck Gun (12). There is a newly set 50+ yard Battue at the club with my name on it, that WILL be attacked and broken by my Briley tubed Blaser tomorrow.

 

Coach: That's the way to do it, I would like to shoot ing Clays with you some day, If I have my prosthetic foot maybe we could do that at the Cardinal during Ohio State Shoot or one of the later shoots, have Drs. Appt today to start the fitting if my stump has healed enough.

Gary

 

Coach: I have seen Kay Ohye have students shoot some high, wide & fast angle targets at Airport Gun Club, and you would be surprised how well they shot them.
I shot some of those targets while they were eating lunch with some other fellas
there at the club. I can say I did pretty well on them, I did not break them all.

I and the others really liked the challenge. Kaye used it to get the students to loosen up and shoot hard fast angles to develop their target acquisition skills.
Develop their lead for the faster hard angles. And the high targets to get them to shoot where they were going to be at.

One Lady student from Pa. did quite well and she trophied at the Grand.

Any competitive shooter would like a challenging target, those that want high averages want the easy targets. They will not shoot the challenging targets.

I knew a AA shooter years ago would not shoot the Sotheast Zone shoot if the wind was blowing, he just wanted to break all the targets, He has now passed away.

I am not afraid to be humbled on those challenging targets.

At the Cardinal a few years ago, during the Ohio State Shoot I shot the Olympic Trap w/my new Caesar Guerini O/U Bbl using 2nd shot twice broke a 24, the Olympic coach said you need to shoot this sport, the first time I had shot that Bbl.
Gun was new out of the box. Used full & Full choke tubes.

Those targets are a challenge, you need a fast target recognition ability, get on it fast and keep the gun moving

Gary Bryant Dr.longshot.

 

Dear Gary

Sporting and Bunker are my preferred sports. I have many dear friends in the ATA and NSSA world, and go out of the way to help and serve them. I am glad they are doing what they love, and they don't seem to hold that against me.

I prefer a sport which does not have perfect scores as a prerequisite to standing in a long line for shoot offs.

 

Gary,

I think you are beating a dead horse when it comes to the ATA and thier targets. You should probably do what the rest of us do and move on to sporting clays and games. Leave the target pounders to American trap and American skeet shooting and find something that fits your pistol. The ones that only want perfection will migrate to the sport of perfection, the rest of us will go have fun.

To keep trying to return a sport to the past that nobody wants anymore is like holding back the tide.

IMO

Rob

 

Rob Taykor: If I or anyone else quits pounding the dead horse nothing will happen, I hope they see the light, and wake up and see what they have done, and others with Blinders on want those easy targets.

The ATA needs competitive targets, targets so hard you cannot break all of them.

Yes that's what I said targets so hard you cannot break all of them.

When a top dog looks at the closed circuit TV sets, and sees he is a leader w/ a 96
he knows he accomplished something, and a close yardage shooter sees he tied him with a 96 he knows he accomplished a great feat.

Then when they see the payoffs, being higher than they have been for years, he is a very happy camper.

Then you look at the ATA Hdcp Average book you see yourself right up there as a leader.

I used to have people come up to me years ago and say I did not know you had that high of an average. Good shooting. That made me feel good.

It can still happen today to the younger shooters, but only if they support change to a lot more of a competitive target.

Doubles that are thrown harder so the slower B-C-D shooter has a target still in the air for their 2nd shot. Maybe they are wider so what. Everybody is shooting those same targets.
I will continue to fight for COMPETETIVE TARGETS. I like challenging targets, just as all other ATA shooters should like them, it is an accomplishment to be proud of.
Dr.longshot Gary Bryant

 

Gary, That sir is your opinion, and I'm sure the opinion of some others too. When the "Big Dogs" and everyone else wants change, then it will happen, and it will have to happen from the inside.

If you want to see it changed, you will most likely have to become a "big dog" and get many people to follow and back you. Then you can change it.

If you are a "big dog" standing on the outside, it probably will be difficult, if you are not a big dog it would be impossible as you are finding out.

Come on over to sporting clays, there are alot of shooters that can't break them all. Join the flyer circuit and be a "big dog", that is just plain tough and there you can have some good winnings and since that is where trapshooting started, you can't go back much further than that.

Good luck,

Rob

 

I have to agree. Drop by the Sporting Course and COME GET SOME!