POLL Largest Handicap event will be at Linn Creek or Cardinal Center? P0LL

Who last year thought we would ask this question?

 

Why isn’t Elysburg in your poll? So far the largest handicap event in 2020 was the Krieghoff Challenge.

 

Because their world and this forum revolves around Ohio and Ohio not hosting the Grand American Trap Shoot anymore. Still angry over the grand moving 15 years ago. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that the Cardinal Center is only 2 hours from my door step. Its got to be the nicest privately owned facility in the country. With many more big plans still in the works. Will certainly be one of the premier locations for target shot gunning in the world if its not already. But this web site was created out of spite and lots of pouting. I can deal with it, if you(Jumanji) cant then you should probably head back across the street. There, my opinion has been said, the pot stirred and the lines cast. Lets see who gets their feathers ruffled today lol.

 

Pot stirred?
Feathers ruffled?
Why would anyone get upset at what you said about the CC?

Maybe? PA wasn’t in the poll because PA never
hosted the Grand American Handicap

 

Ahh, I see. So today you're cool hand luke?

 

It be a little boring if, if we did not have a two ''Party System''...Makes for a lively debate.

 

The cardinal center never hosted a grand either. Quit editing your posts. Your getting the polls confused. This is just about handicaps at linn creek and the cardinal center. It says nothing about the grand in the title of the poll.

 

Dustin,
Why can't you just answer the question as asked rather than have to get off on some crap that was not asked in the first place ..? Ohio was and probably still is as close to the center of the shooting population as one can get which would make it most desirable even if it didn't have what is probably the Finest Shooting facility in the country , The Cardinal Center which just happens to be located in Ohio ... The Cardinal Center has not hosted a grand yet would probably more accurate, in actuality they do not need the grand and obviously were not interested unless their conditions were met, Linn Creek on the other hand never made the news until just lately and there was no place else to go ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

I'm not required to answer any questions just as merlo isn't required to do any polls.....

 

and btw WPT, I think the grand would be better in Ohio too. BUT ITS NOT. So I accept and move on. Lifes too short to cry over 15 year old spilt milk.

 

You are correct in that the grand wasn't mentioned in the original post. I posted what I did because someone wrote this.

"Because their world and this forum revolves around Ohio and Ohio not hosting the Grand American Trap Shoot anymore"

Look familiar?

How about this one?

"The cardinal center never hosted a grand either. Quit editing your posts. Your getting the polls confused. This is just about handicaps at linn creek and the cardinal center. It says nothing about the grand in the title of the poll"

And yet you decided to mention it first.

Trying to "stir the pot" and "ruffle some feathers" is always fun but you have to know how to do it.

And while I'm giving lessons, who is THEY in "their world"?

 

You sound a little "ruffled".

 

Oh I know how to do it. You forgot about the "lines cast". You started as a nibble, then swallowed the hook.

 

Darn Dustin
Now you have made me feel bad that you didn’t notice I have taken a thousand pictures of the PA shoots and the HOF there. By the way the HOF in PA is every bit as good as the one in Sparta. But it is paid for. And people actually saw it this year.

You didn’t mention the pictures of the HOF in OH either. I am guessing because you feel bad it is paid for and people actually visit the place.

And you didn’t mention the pictures I took of Sparta either. That is the place with the HOF that isn’t paid for. And no one visits it.

I am not surprised you didn’t mention that I was asked to go to Linn Creek and document with pictures what will probably be smallest GAH ever.

The big reason I wasn’t planning on going to Sparta to take pictures isn’t because fewer people have been going there. It isn’t because it is a gun hate state. The reason I am not going to Sparta is the joint is all but closed. That includes the HOF that isn’t paid for.

I am considering a drive by to take pictures of the weeds at Sparta. More people want to see that.

I did take pictures of some great Illinois shooters. They were at the OH State Championship. Illinois had their event closed by the Gun Hate State.

What I didn’t get a picture of was Gipson’s face when the CC told him $50 a hundred would be the cost to hold the grand. Now that would have been a great picture.

The forum has had 48 straight months of record readership. Thanks for your contribution.

 

Yep, you got me all right. Problem is, you missed



And, your NON answer to my question of who THEY in "their world" are kinda shows it. I don't live in Ohio.

The first thing you have to make sure of before you try and start something is to know WTH you are talking about. If you start and then quit with

"I'm not required to answer any questions"

It just comes off as lame.

 

"What I didn’t get a picture of was Gipson’s face when the CC told him $50 a hundred would be the cost to hold the grand. Now that would have been a great picture."

I would have bought two tickets to see that.

That and a pic of his face when the SCTP told him

Ahhh, thanks but even with free targets,.... NO!

 

"they"=the majority of this page.

"im not required to answer any questions" its easy to spin what I say when you crop my quotes or posts. that comment was in line with what just joe said.

 

I didn't crop ANYTHING
I don't have to do that to make people look silly. They do that all on their own.

 

Family Guy: I was actually thinking of you when I was typing up an earlier post here. You are an awesome contributor to this site. I love your pictures. When I first signed up here a few months ago the first thing I did was go thru every one of you posts in the picture section. After seeing your selfie you posted from the Ohio State last week, I believe is saw you on Saturday before the rains came just after they started the second half of the singles championship. Keep doing what you do brother!

 

He did make those ''Foster Grants'' look good.

 

Good to know based on that we are not required to answer (stupid) questions you pose that are not related to the issue's of any given posting ... If there comes a day that you contribute near as much as Merlo does based on accuracy people might just pay more attention to your rambling ... If you Post a Poll, you might be surprised at what you can find out ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

flyers I know how to stir the pot. I just stir it sloppily, just gives you more to nit pick at. or in other words, waste your time replying to my comments on an internet chat forum. My original comment on here was meant just for you. I knew it would draw a response from you. You are too easy man. Stir the pot. tootle a loo.

 

Im not knocking merlo at all. I love reading his scoops on here. I just like to poke at flyers. Hes too easy.

 

Guys, you need to stop. I might miss my Doctor appointment reading all this.

 

I poke at flyers because one of my first posts on here was a simple question with no malicious intent. Flyers response contained more research on me than the FBI could ever get and then tried to be little me. It was then that I realized I had found my tool, flyers, the tool I would use and abuse the most lol. Just kidding folks. Im a nice guy.

 

Here's the one post that will just about cover it.

I've never been to the Ohio state shoot or any state shoot for that matter.

Anyone want to take credit for it?

 

The word is BELITTLE. One word.

When you use it as two words is sounds like you are saying you are small and I'm trying to BE like you.

I can see that is just the opposite. You are trying to be like ME.

Keep trying

 

I wont deny it. It would be east to search for that post since this morning I had 19 posts.

 

What if I looked West instead of East?

 

Flyers, you're tooooo easy. Do you not think that after you nit picked the content of my posts AND the grammar/spelling, that I wouldnt bait you with a little C- English?

 

No time for that now flyers. I don't want rookieshooter to miss his dr's appointment.

 

I'm not "nitpicking", again, one word. I'm just reading your posts and the errors, both in spelling and in their content, just jump out at me.

How about this little gem.​

"I decide bs. Bias reporting. Although I do love the gossip. folks are still butt hurt over Vandalia need to LET IT GO! lol.

Please explain how in the world someone that admittedly hasn't been anywhere can have the balls to post that.
Or were you just trying to "stir the pot" and "ruffle some feathers" with that silly nonsense.

 

I missed this one while I was typing.

You can take a swipe at me anytime you want. Your not wasting my time. I'm retired and have all the time in the world.

With some of the stuff you post making you look foolish could be a new career for me.

 

Ive been, been working the traps before voice activation, been shooting, never serious or a lot maybe 1,000 targets a year, just never registered. I been listening to people bitch about the move to sparta before the last grand was even shot in Vandalia. We are just 45 minutes from the old home grounds of the ata so a lot had to do with distance. and I still hear it today. But most have gotten over it, moved on and now going to the grand. I have no opinion on all the politics or executives of the ata. But it was foolish to move it to a gun hate sate. Its just that the first grand since the move happened 15 years ago. What would you do with yourself if they moved it back to ohio? what would you do with all the extra time you would have since you couldn't complain anymore? Lifes too short people. Let it go and live in the now. Congrats on your retirement flyers. My dad just retired a couple years ago. He worked hard.

 

Dustin....I don't want the grand here. Most Ohio shooters feel the same way. The Cardinal Classic is a better shoot. Better place without the corruption surrounding Gipson and his friends. We have better now. We are happy having 4 of the 6 largest shoots in a summer.

The Cardinal Center threw registered targets before Sparta. I like this direction. Best of luck with the trolling.

 

Dustin, It is not just the move that has shooters upset with the ATA. They ran a poll to finfd out if the shooters wanted to go to Sparta. The vote was overwhelming do not go to Sparts or Ill. The E.C. just disregarded they wishes of the members and made the move. Thare were other locations that would have been a lot better than Sparta. They were just blown off.
The citizens of Ill. were sold a bill of goods that cost them a lot of tax money, with no return. The shooters buildling that they built belongs to the state of Ill. the people in charge of the H.O.F. knew this and never revieled this to the members. The building cost over 2 million dollars. A member of the E.C. was in the group that purchased the ATA office building hiding behind a corp. name and benefited from the resale to the ATA. They purchased over $750,000.00 dollars worth of trap machines with out any competitive bids. Rumor is there was a large kick back on the sale.
For about the last 20 or 25 years the ATA has not represented the member, but have taked very good care of themselves, they are killing the sport a little bit more by every stupid move that they make.
Before you condem the members that are not happy, keep in mind that this country was founded by citizens that were not happy with conditions around them. Always remember ( evil will prevail when men of honor do nothing.) Roger C.

 

Only answering since you asked questions.

"What would you do with yourself if they moved it back to ohio?"

If just some of the dozens of local clubs decided to start throwing registered targets again (most quit) I probably would start again. The reason we shot all those targets was to get ready for the GRAND. Now? No grand, why bother?

Since you never experienced what it was like to plan your whole life around registered trap shooting you might not understand that. Since you had and still do have a chance to do that NOW but don't, well, I can't explain that. That is on you.


"what would you do with all the extra time you would have since you couldn't complain anymore?"

If you ever retire you will find that there are plenty of things to do with your time. Me? I would shoot every weekend.

And one comment on this

"Let it go and live in the now"

I, along with THOUSANDS of other shooters, HAVE "let it go". That's the reason the numbers for that place in ILLnews have been so pathetic for the last 14 years.

So endith the lesson....

 

Thank you for the lesson flyers and rodger. I am but a grasshopper with a foul mouth.....but anyway. Another reason I joined this site was hear what rodger and others speak of. Such as all the shady deals, etc. As I said I just started registering targets right before the covid and I wanted to know bit of the history/recent events to get a general idea of how close to stand to the fence and from what side. The old timers at my club were talking the other day about the grand and when they were looking for a new home and how Indiana offered the ata free land along I74 by Shelbyville. Has anyone heard this story? as for my foul mouth, it started as an eye for an eye type situation on here. I asked a simple question and was attacked. Ive seen mens hobbies and business passions got to hell when it came time to divvy things up per say. Its nice to know that the family is as proud of the cardinal center as mr fishburn is. Good Day!

 

"I asked a simple question and was attacked"

Time to put on your big boy pants.

I must have missed the question in this one

"But this web site was created out of spite and lots of pouting"

Do a little research on your own and you will see why it was created. Don't listen to the stooges somewhere else and just parrot their dumbass remarks.

Or this one

"folks are still butt hurt over Vandalia need to LET IT GO! lol."

I didn't miss the stupid LOL at the end and I didn't think it was funny.

You want to start a poll of your own?

Ask how many people on this site think it's funny (LOL) that you made a crack like that.

 

flyers, stubborn but so sensitive you are. Flyers I read you comments everyday. I know you know what sarcasm is. Did it ever occur to you that my comments maybe sarcastic and if so should be taken with a grain of salt? We are not in court, standing trial. Chillax.

 

Dustin, The area in Indiana was not any better than Sparta. One of the E.C. is rumored to have purchased much much land around the site, as he was trying to get the ATA to move there. It did not work out for him. I do not think that land was free of cost to the ATA. Another site was offered in Ohio many acres, they would have had a 100 yr. lease at cost of $1.00 a year. The person that owned the land in Ind. was in a position to refuse the Ohio deal. This is a small sample of the underhanded moves and deals that the ATA E.C. has made that we know about. It is rumored that there are many others that would curl you toes. Roger C.

 

It is more so how the ATA did it, not what they did that really matters ... Underhanded deals abound for the past 15 plus years, it continues on yet today but most people could care less because they have moved on ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

You might want to check on that!
Last I knew they had a $400,000 loan.

 

Much of which was a result of purchasing those garbage PAT traps that a few certain somebodies decided the PSSA absolutely had to have. That happened soon after all the Superstars were serviced by Steve Huber. Amazingly, we have Superstars in our trap houses operating for 25 years with minimal upkeep and not only 23 days/year.

 

The OSTA owns all the traps at the Cardinal Center, when I was on the board we got them paid for by Pittman, Robertson Tax money from the Ohio division of Wildlife. So much of that money has to be spent on shooting ranges by law. If the PA board didn't pursue this they were maleficent I'd say. I know many other smaller clubs that have gotten paid for machines in Ohio and other states also. Check out the Pittman - Robertson Law. it's been around forever. Also about half the shot screen paid for by grants from ohio epa and ODW.

 

Oleolliedawg, You are spot on about the super star traps, Pat does not nor ever will measure up to the quality of the super star. They were purchased wirh out competitive bidding by Dave Kaiser. One of many underhanded deals made back then.The super star machines were and are the cadilac of the industry, but the law suit instatuted by Pat traps caused the decision not to ship to north America any more. Rod Shyda and I were the two top dealers for GMV in the USA.
The Pats were the worst thing that ever happened to registered shooting. Roger C.
OLEO. You have a PM

 

I dont remember a land deal near Shelbyville, only Lebanon, Richmond and Universal.

 

Amateur Trapshooting Association Mulls Move to IndianaThe Shelbyville News ^| Monday, June 02, 2003 | By JOHN WALKER

Posted on Monday, June 02, 2003 9:26:17 PM by brewer1516

Monday, June 02, 2003

Shelby County advantages begin to sway trapshooters

By JOHN WALKER jwalker@shelbynews

Shelby County will be the new home of the Amateur Trapshooting Association if the current leader of the world’s largest trapshooting organization has his way.

And the large majority of the ATA’s members seem to share that opinion, based on a survey recently completed by the group.

The ATA must move from its current headquarters in Vandalia, Ohio, due to the expansion of a nearby airport, and time is getting short.

“It is expected, as Dayton Airport officials have forewarned us, that after August 2005, we will not be able to hold the Grand American as it is presently configured,” ATA president Thomas Acklin said in his May “President’s Column” posted on the group’s Web site, www.shootata.com.

The Grand American World Trapshooting Championships is the ATA’s premier annual shooting event. Held for about nine days each August, “the Grand” draws thousands of participants and spectators and brings millions of dollars to the local economy.

Acklin will present the pros and cons of possible new sites to the ATA’s board of directors on Aug. 11 during this year’s Grand American in Vandalia.

“I will be doing the presentation in favor of Shelbyville,” he said.

Delegates from each state at the group’s annual meeting are expected to vote on a new site during this year’s Grand.

Financial issues

Located east of the intersection of State Road 9 and County Road 750 North near Shelby Materials, the local site includes several separately owned tracts totaling about 1,300 acres. The price is about $4 million, according to the ATA Web site.

The problem is making the local site work financially for the ATA, said Acklin.

Local officials have put together a package of possible financial assistance totaling $5 million, according to the Web site.

However, Acklin hopes Indiana state officials will step up with some financial assistance.

Dan Theobald, executive director of the Shelby County Development Corp., said the Indiana Department of Commerce has been unable to help because its money is tied to the creation of a significant number of new jobs, which the ATA relocation would not do. However, the state has offered financial support.

“The DNR (Department of Natural Resources) already pledged some dollars to this,” he said.

That commitment is $100,000 annually from a special DNR fund that comes from fees paid for hunting and fishing licenses, Theobald said.

The county has set aside $125,000 in annual Economic Development Income Tax funds for the ATA, but has not yet actually voted to spend the money. The city of Shelbyville has not included the ATA in its EDIT plan, though it has been discussed among city officials, according to Rod Meyerholtz, clerk-treasurer of Shelbyville.

Theobald said there would probably have to be tax abatement and a Tax Increment Finance district created for the development.

The ATA is not asking for a free ride, Acklin said.

“We’re willing to service a little debt,” he said.

What the ATA’s members apparently aren’t willing to do is venture too far from their current home.

Survey says

A recent survey of ATA members seems to support Acklin’s opinion that Shelby County is the best choice for the new headquarters.

Shelby County was one of three finalists when the group originally voted in August 2001 to go to a site near Sparta, Illinois. But complications arose with that location, and the ATA resumed its search. The top contenders now listed on the ATA’s Web site are Shelby County, Las Vegas and Sparta.

Recently the ATA sent a seven-question survey to 20,000 of its members. Nearly 4,800 replied, a 24 percent response rate.

ATA members in the U.S. live in one of five zones designated by the group: Eastern, Southern, Central, Southwestern and Western. By far the largest number of survey responses, 2,094, came from the Central Zone which includes the states of North and South Dakota, Nebraska, Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, Illinois, Michigan, Ohio and Indiana.

The Central Zone also contains by far the largest number of active ATA members — 12,331 or 36 percent of the group’s 34,271 active members.

The Eastern Zone, which includes the six New England states plus Delaware, Maryland, New York, New Jersey and Pennsylvania, contains the second-highest number of active members, 7,178, or 21 percent.

Of the survey respondents, 2,435 said they attend the Grand American every year. The vast majority of the annual attendees, 1,390 or 57 percent, live in the Central Zone. The next-largest group which attends every year, 527 or 22 percent, comes from the Eastern Zone.

Question four in the survey asked, “If the Grand moves to a location that is further away from you, how would it affect your attendance?”

Of the 1,821 total respondents from the Central Zone, 75 percent said they would attend less often or not at all. Of the 906 members who responded from the Eastern Zone, 83 percent said they’d go less often or not at all.

Perhaps the most telling question in the survey asked the respondents to rank the important factors in choosing a new location.

The largest majority named “pro-gun state” as their top choice. One issue with the site in Sparta has been Illinois’ restrictive gun laws, although state officials have reportedly been working to change them.

“Proximity to current location” was the second most important factor in picking a new location, followed by “land ownership vs. lease” and “proximity to amenities.”

The ATA would not own the site in either Sparta or Las Vegas. Both of those locations are further away from the ATA’s current home than Shelby County, and Sparta is not near any major city, all important factors to the members, according to the survey.

Acklin believes the survey clearly points to Shelby County as the best location.

“I would agree wholeheartedly,” he said.

Content © The Shelbyville News, All Rights Reserved Software © 1998-2003 1up! Software, All Rights Reserved

HB

 

Thank HB for the info

So endith the lesson