Have fun out there in Marengo, OH- Cardinal Center @ Cardinal Classic - sid

We had a blast at the Grand. But, I know some of you couldn't make it. It isn't the Grand but try making the best of it.....sid

 

1,978

 

LCH, you won't need the popcorn
Sidney won't answer so this thread will be quite small

Kind of like the line to sign up for event 24 was

Instead of putting a number on that event they should have given it a proper title instead of gah

With all the pre event predictions of 17% or 4,000 shooters, which was just silly, they could have titled it the LOL

 

Maybe they should have used this logo and called it

THE GRAND AMERICAN TURKEY

 

Just like Thanksgiving

You only have to put up with the hype once a year. And reading about it puts you to sleep

 

Do you have any fishing spot for me at the CC like we have for you guys at Sparta . If only the boycotters had shown up we could have had larger numbers at the Grand. However, overall paid entries were more than last year leading to a $600,000 plus PROFIT just for the Grand. This money goes to members benefit. When Illinois goes bankrupt we will buy the WSRC.

I noticed that the Kolar Handicap last year at CC only had 773 shooters. You guys need to do better before Mr. Fishburn close down and move to Sparta. With no home ground OH will be screwed

 

Surely somebody will set up one of those inflatable wading pools for you. If they stock it with minnows, you'll probably have just as much luck there as you did in Farta, I mean Sparta.

 

WOW Mike, there is so much crap in your post above that it might take two pumper trucks to clean it up.

First, I don't have anything to do with the fishing spots. I do believe they have a small pond but all the shooters I have ever shot with never went to a shoot to fish. It is probably more for the kids, or shooters like you that, as you said, shoot pathetic scores. You will have to find yourself a spot. Sorry

Second, "If only the boycotters had shown up...."
If you are trying to blame the low entries on the OH and PA shooters you just stepped in some of your own crap.
The ata management told everyone that the number of shooters from out west and those close to that place would make up any difference in entries. Fourteen YEARS later? How's that working out? If you want to blame someone you better start with all those shooters. Why don't they show up?

Third, Overall entries? So if 100 people show up and shoot 200 sixteens, 100 doubles, and 100 caps there are 300 entries.
Only 100 people but 300 entries. Funny how that math works huh? Really doesn't tell you how many people were willing to make that trip does it? On a side note, where did you come up with that $600,000 number? I want to see the "official" report. Not that it means it's true. Remember the 30,000 campers?

Forth, "This money goes to members benefit."
I'm going to let you explain that one. I paid dues for years and never even heard of a "members benefit". I guess you could say the EC are members. What you wrote would make sense in that case.

Fifth, "When Illinois goes bankrupt we will buy the WSRC. "
You should have made that two sentences. You have the first part about them going bankrupt right. Please explain who the WE is in the second part.
Don't tell me you are part of that WE, as in one of the people that makes decisions for the ata membership. Maybe that goes back to where you got that $600,000 figure? Mike, you on the "inside"?

You really believe they will sell a STATE PARK? YOU GUYS better have a LOT more in the bank if the state decides to call it quits and can get the people to agree on selling THEIR State Park to an outfit that has anything to do with guns.

Sixth, "I noticed that the Kolar Handicap last year at CC only had 773 shooters"
SO, you are comparing that event to the
GRAND AMERICAN HANDICAP EVENT AT THE WORLD SHOOTING AND RECREATIONAL COMPLEX.

Really? Even you have to see how silly that is. Too late to fix now, can't delete it. It does show me that YOU think the "grand" is on the same level with a shoot at the CC. Thank You for that, you are correct.

And lucky number Seven, "You guys need to do better before Mr. Fishburn close down and move to Sparta. With no home ground OH will be screwed"

Hey Mike, forget the sarcastic approach. You aren't very good at it, as I have shown before, so just stick with the pics. They were nice.

Before Mr. Fishburn CLOSES DOWN and MOVES TO sparta? That's so stupid it doesn't really deserve a reply but since you took the time to think that one up I will . I have no way of knowing Mr. Fishburns worth or how much more he has planned for the Cardinal Center but I do beleive he is a man of his word and since there is a TEN YEAR CONTRACT with the SCTP and he spent hundreds of Thousands on the shot curtains I really doubt if the CC will be "closing down".

And, on the extremely improbably almost unfathomable chance that Mr. Fishburn had to move his great facility I would be willing to bet a buck that it wouldn't be to that outpost in BFE. He CAN read you know. The pathetic numbers of shooters going there pretty much sums up that brilliant move.

Didn't that place in ILLnews close once? I think so. How about it Mike, help me out here. What year was that when the SCTP had to move because the state said OOPS, no money.


Eighth, and lastly, "With no home ground OH will be screwed "

As stated in number seven, that won't happen and you know it. The CC was throwing when that place in ILLNEWS was just a wet dream.

What YOU and the rest of the inside guys better be worried about is "With no home ground the ata will be screwed "

WHEW, that was a lot of work. Gotta go empty the pumper. Have to have it empty in case sidney shows up.

 

Don't bust a vein Flyer my posts are mainly in jest. I do have inside information even though I am not connected. This Grand made over $600,000, look for the financial report.

You guys made it look like Fishburn went to Sparta to help the ATA out. That's the biggest LIE!!!! Fishburn went there to expand his business interest but it might not have worked out...I don't know how it ended. The bottom line was to make greater use of Sparta NOT the CC. And that's the whole truth.

I am tired of the number of shooters vs number of entries debate. The bottom like is the Grand is making money for the ATA members not a private individual.

See yah, gone fishing

 

I would never "bust a vein" over a fishing post. Don't have to. I might have do that to reply to a serious post but when someone like you or sidney or #2 puts up silly and obviously baiting post it is pretty easy to make it look foolish.

If you practiced your shooting as much as you practiced how to bait OH and Pa shooters you might not have to go fishing.

Did you get that? Fishing aka trolling, baiting, real fishing. Like how I wrapped that all up into one tiny bait ball?

I assume from your "gone fishing" sign off we won't be "herring" from you anymore?

Thanks again for comparing that place and EVENT 24 to a shoot at the Cardinal Center. Nice to see at least one person knows it's a fact

 

$600,000 in profit? Does that include the 31K they fleeced from all you unsuspecting rubes to help "pay" for THOF Bldg.?

Oh, maybe you would be kind enough to tell us why Mr. Fishburn went to Sparta. If it's a lie, tell us the truth.

 

Can't you read? I said he went to Sparta to look for opportunities to expand his business interest at SPARTA! I thought Brad said he knows why Fishburn went to Sparta, I would like to hear what he has to say. I get my info straight from the top, no hearsay.

 

The Cardinal Center received a call from the TOP at Sparta to send them a proposal. A member of the EC was looking for a backup plan. The CC sent them one the week before Jack and the Boys flew to Sparta for the ATA (EC?) to go over. The EC had it for a few days before the early morning meeting with Jack and his staff. Any rumors that were around at Sparta must have been generated from that group (ATA).

I told the boys to make the ATA come to them but they went anyhow.

 

No inaccuracy in what you stated Brad. The proposal was to make greater use of the WSRC because better use can be made of the facility than just hosting the Grand and US Open. I don't know how the discussions went but I do hope Mr. Fishburn see the potential to do business at Sparta. Everything is there at the WORLD's Premeir shooting facility.

BTW, the backup plan was not to host the Grand elsewhere. The Grand is committed to be in Sparta for the foreseeable future. Long after all of us here are dead!

Note if that plane I posted the picture of is Fishburn's it was there for at least 3 days could be 4. So Fishburn did had some interest at Sparta.

 

Jack can afford to buy it but he lives in Morrow County, Ohio and has spent his life there. I doubt that he would want to bail out Sparta, Illinois.

I think Jack was home by Monday evening. By the way not everything is in Sparta, the SCTP is in Marango and unless you are planning on going soon (I'm not) I wouldn't be making many pronouncements about the future.

 

No I an not going anywhere for the next 30 years, get the point? You need to visit the facility yourself to see the investment and that alone will tell you if hosting the Grand there is in jeopardy. It is not! They are not looking for Jack to buy the facility just to host more shooting there.

 

"They are not looking for Jack to buy the facility just to host more shooting there. "

DAMN ..... That Sparta Kool-Aid is dangerous .....

Why would "Jack" want to "just to host more shooting there" (Sparta) ??????? When he owns a much better place where he lives .....

That has to be the absolute dumbest thing I have ever read in cyber-land .....

Heck, the ' hook ' has to small enough to not scare the ' fish ' .....

 

It is called business opportunity User1. In addition to CC shoots he could host other shoots at Sparta that will not compete with those held at CC. We have a lot of young shooters looking for opportunities to shoot more. The future looks bright. Stop boycotting and get with the program! Never seen a bunch of boycotters caring about the Grand so much. Stop worrying!

 

Well "Mike J" ..... Just for you ..... One more time ......

I have been to and shot at "Sparta" ..... I would NOT SHOOT the "Grand" if it was across the street from my house .....

So ..... The Grand in BFE is NOT my biggest issue .....

Having to tell my wife that I just spent days and thousands of dollars, for a plastic duck and some useless "points" ...... Then her calling me STUPID, and I have to agree with her, takes the "Grand" over the top for me .....

And ..... It IS NOT a ' money thing ' with my wife ..... It is how a sane adult spends it .....

 

"It is called business opportunity User1." ..... Well, I doubt this "business opportunity" will sell "Jack" a spot in the Hall of Fame for ???? millions, to keep the dream alive .....

 

I spent $4,000 and it was worth every penny. For me it is fun and relaxation. To each his own, but stop worrying about the future of the Grand.

 

You still do not get it .....

I DO NOT "worry about the future of the Grand" ..... I "worry" about what the "ATA" has done to organized Trapshooting .....

Back in the day, small/many Clubs made a ton of money just before shoots like the "Grand" ..... People getting their targets in, tuning their game, and so on ..... Those same small Clubs are closing at a rapid rate, because of the general lack of interest in ' getting better ' to compete in the "ATA" ..... The "ATA" has become so focused on "saving Sparta", they are having a direct effect on those trying to fill the other 50 weeks per year .....

So ..... ALL Clubs suffer, including the CC, from the "save Sparta" cancer known as the "ATA" .....

Drink the Kool-Aid ..... spend your time and money ..... have fun now, and stick around long enough for your turn to have a reason to "worry" .....

 

The day will come when the State of Illinois will shutter the WSRC facility as they have in the past ... The bigger problem is that nobody really cares anymore ... The majority of shooters who used to look forward to the grand now use a shoot or shoots at the Cardinal Center as a replacement to the grand ... I seriously doubt Mr Fishburn needs or desires to create or expand his business ventures to where it would include the WSRC in Sparta, Ill to increase his income ... The Cardinal Center on any given day outshines all of the features at the facility in Ill for a multitude of reasons ... The ATA makes money when they host the shoot at the WSRC even with the decreased attendance ... To have the trapshooting championships over the course of 2 weeks and only produce 30,562 entry's is nothing short of Pathetic, to have less than 2000 shooters on the grand daddy handicap shoot (grand American Championship handicap) is even more Pathetic and nothing short of moving it to another location can or will change that ... Mr Fishburn does not need the ATA, he does quite well on his own, the ATA on the other hand is not so fortunate ... They are renters and can be locked or shut out without notice just like they have been in the past, just a matter of time ... Time will tell, until than less and less people care ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

The TOP? Who is the top? NAME NAMES!

 

Decent post even though I don't share your sentiments. The ATA is not the problem. Trapshooting has declined for many reasons other than money in the game. People just have other options. However, it is great to see tremendous interest from young shooters. I don't believe I have seen as much young shooters as I saw at the recent Grand. In fact, Ryan Denes from Marengo shot 200 straight in singles and 100 straight in doubles among other great scores. Good thing he didn't listen to the boycotters LOL.

 

It's not ghost or phantom LOL.

 

And you will think with post like this OH would draw a bigger crowd than Sparta. What am I missing. All good $19 million in the bank!

 

Pretty soon, somebody is going to start whispering, "Boool chit."

 

"The ATA is not the problem." ..... What makes you say that ??????

You keep referring to "the Grand" ... That IS a "ATA" shoot ... so any "problem" would be their's alone ... would it not ??????

I referred to organized Trapshooting ..... in that, the ATA may not be the ONLY "problem", but a very large part of it .....

It seems a bit twisted to measure the ATA's performance with "millions in the bank" ...... A "Trapshooting Charity" should be able to ONLY list that at the very bottom of their bragging rights .....

FWIW ..... A "Trapshooting Charity" that seems to have a single goal of "making money", without paying taxes, will at some point draw the attention of the IRS ..... then it will be game over .....

 

19 million in the bank and they had less people this year than they did last year for EVENT 24. Things are so great they have to have contingency plans and a committee to try and figure out how to get more people to show up. Good luck with that LOL The numbers are a joke.

Fourteen years and it still sucks. I don't know who Mike J. is trying to convince, us or himself. The GAH used to be the premier event of the year. Now he has to compare it to a shoot in Ohio? If someone would have compared their state shoot to the grand before the move they would have been laughed at.
Nothing was bigger. Now? 1,978 How in the hell can anyone be proud of that?

EVENT 24 at that place in ILLnews can't draw 2500. You will notice mike j has selective amnesia when it comes to refuting anything I said about all these other shooters that were supposed to make up for the lack of eastern shooters. Crickets!

mike j. the first thing you have to do when you are in denial is admit to yourself that there is a problem. I. Know, you don't see a problem with 19 million in the bank. You said that before 19 million in the bank. In the words of one of your lemming buddies, SO WHAT!

Fourteen years and the place can't draw half what it used to. Yeah I know, 19 million in the bank. Too bad they can't use some of that to draw more shooters. Yeah yeah, I know, 19 million in the bank.

I hope the ata never leaves there. I hope it cost all of that 19 million to keep it right where it is. You said it will be there for 30 years?

Two things are going to be true in 30 years.

I'll be dead and that event will still be a punchline. I just hope you are young enough to still be around to see it die a slow death.

Yeah I know, 19 million

 

Hi! My name is Baghdad Mike.
Sparta ROCKS!

 

Flyer, I would be more concerned about comparing this year day 1 Cardinal Classic to previous years. No wonder Mr Fishburn is looking for opportunities. With no home ground I am sorry for you guys if CC close up shop. How much money OH ATA has for such contingency?

 

Then why did you compare what used to be the biggest event of the season to a an event at the CC?

Because that is the only lame azz argument you can make for the pathetic numbers at that place in ILLnews, that's why.

Yeah the numbers were worse this year at that place but, but, what about that shoot in Ohio huh?

Like I said, lame

 

Because everybody was supposed to be flocking to that place with an artificial background

 

So just to show 2019 total paid entries at the Grand was 298 or 1% higher than 2018. As a result over $600,000 PROFIT for the GRAND only and $19 million total in the Bank. SO WHAT

 

If they made that much money, they ought to be able to pay for their own HOF! It will most likely end up in the cash cow box.

 

Mike, How much of the $19,000,000. is unearned income? Roger C.

 

A lot of it RC. Good investment strategies leading to huge gains if you want to call that unearned.

 

1,978

I I thought you said you weren't' going to get into the "entries/shooter" thing. LOL

Please post where you saw the words EVERBODY.

THAT is a page right out of YOUR and the ata's handbook.

If we build it they will come, if we build it they will come, if we build it they will come.

Hey Sidney, you said if we chanted that three times the place would be packed.

I never said any such thing mike, that was number 2 that said that.

Hey don't blame me, I was just following the instructions on the back of the Kool-Aid pack.

Well, it ain't working. We have been standing around the camp fire at this outpost for fourteen years and I'm telling you it AIN'T WORKIN. Look at the number of shooters we have lost since the ring masters decided to move the big top.

Well, how about it mike? You talk a lot about how great everything is, you and Gipson, why don't we get more people.

It's those people in Pennsylvania and Ohio. If they would show up we would have the same three to four thousand shooters for EVENT 24

BULLSHIT mike. Even sidney isn't dumb enough to buy that, and I'm smarter then sidney. If you try that on some of those Ohio or Pennsylvania guys they will eat your lunch. You have to come up with a better excuse.

OK, how's this? That shoot they have at the Cardinal Center? The event they call the Kolar Handicap? They get less shooters than we do for EVENT 24. how's that?

Mike, what are you? a booger eating moron? What the %^&* does that event in Ohio have to do with how many people DON"T SHOW UP for Event 24? HUH? Tell us!

Oh man, I don't know, I can't say it's because they screwed up when they moved so I just throw that one out there to try and deflect the truth.

Well guess what captain obvious, that AINT WORKIN EITHER. You don't really expect people to buy that crap do you?

Hey, that's not all I told them. I said that the Cardinal Center would probably close and they wouldn't have anyplace to go. And that Mr. Fishburn went to that place where they hold that shoot every August to try and see if he could make money somehow.

mike, put down the crack pipe for a minute and listen to yourself. For the love of God man, what have they done to you?
Nothing, I'm fine, you two guys better get on board with my way of thinking or you won't be around when we get four thousand shooters for EVENT 24.

Wadda think Sidney? It's too late number two.His mind is completely gone. Maybe it was the mushrooms he ate when he was down by the swamp fishing. Maybe over doses of Kool-Aid, tough to tell. Too bad really, if he would have practiced shooting more he might not have had to go fishing so much.

Yep, you are probably right. Where were we? Oh yeah,

If we build it they will come, if we build it they will come, if we build it they will come.

 

Man, I could do this all day. With guys like mike j as set up men it almost writes itself.

BTW mike, I have never been to the CC. I just like making you look silly

 

"A lot of it RC" ...... If that is true ......

Look here .....
https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-p...schedules-a-and-b-public-charity-support-test

"an organization can receive no more than one-third of its support from gross investment income and unrelated business taxable income."

 

Huh, I just looked at that chart and I see 2,035 for last years event 24
Why does the other "official" chart I saw have it as 2,050?
One of them is a LIE!!!
Which one?

 

Mike J.
FYI : The accumulated 19 M the ATA has in the bank, invested, stored in the ED, ED or any of the BOD's accounts has not is not since the re location to the WSRC, its been many years and counting probably long before you were a member way back when they were in Vandalia for that to happen ... You better check out your numbers or lay off the Kool aid for a few days to get your thinking right ... There is no way the ATA has accumulated 19M in the time they have been in Sparta,Ill, they been around for a long time and were much better off before they landed in Illinois ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

I have been a Life Member since 1975, (do the math) and they had been around a lot long time when I joined ... Imagine how much they could of accumulated if they had re located any place else ...

 

The bait can must be empty. Both figuratively AND literally.

It must really be a sore spot that the Cardinal Center in Marengo, OHIO has the SCTP shoot for the next 10 years.. For the NEXT TEN YEARS. They NEVER saw that one coming. LOL

And that the ata had to reach out to Mr. Fishburn for HELP with that place.

I can hear Diana Ross singing right now "Reach out and touch, somebody's hand, make this a better place, if you can.

Or maybe the Beatles, HELP I need somebody, HELP Not just anybody. Wont you please, please help me?

LIke a bad dream coming true for them.

 

Mike when I say the top at the CC I mean Jack and the boys that run the place. Jack is not looking to buy anything in sparta, although he probably could afford to buy the whole county from what I have seen of sparta and what I know of Jack. That's just my opinion, no facts known, just my guess.

 

"Asking for a friend". How much money does OH Trapshooting have in the bank? They have been hosting large shoots forever and their fees are not low. Where has all of their money gone? Or, do they have many millions in the bank? As I said just asking for a friend.

 

Going on memory OSTA had about 3/4 mill splint between OSTA and foundation. I think you can get a finacial sheet by asking. OSTA is very transparent with their finances, not like ATA at all.

 

According to an April 6, 2019 report, $45,685.82

 

Thanks mike j. While you are at it can you check on these for us too? A "friend" wants to know

• Alabama
• Alaska
• Arizona
• Arkansas
• California
• Colorado
• Connecticut
• Delaware
• Florida
• Georgia
• Hawaii
• Idaho
• Illinois
• Indiana
• Iowa
• Kansas
• Kentucky
• Louisiana
• Maine
• Maryland
• Massachusetts
• Michigan
• Minnesota
• Mississippi
• Missouri
• Montana
• Nebraska
• Nevada
• New Hampshire
• New Jersey
• New Mexico
• New York
• North Carolina
• North Dakota
• Oklahoma
• Oregon
• Rhode Island
• South Carolina
• South Dakota
• Tennessee
• Texas
• Utah
• Vermont
• Virginia
• Washington
• West Virginia
• Wisconsin
• Wyoming

 

And to think, they didn't even have to lie or cheat or charge a dollar at the gate to raise that money.

 

Looks to me that OH wants the Grand so the ATA can bail them out but WE don't support Welfare .

 

Mike, You are just a shit stirrer. You have no connection to the inner workings of the EC. Roger C.

 

Mike - great to see you here.

I get your drift “Jack bailing out Sparta” funny stuff.

Jack Fishburn does not want to be in the Hall of Fame. Too bad you bled the Martins out. Build another HOF building and they might donate again.

 

HUH?

Man you have to be getting frustrated to post something that stupid. Sit down, take a deep breath, and THINK.

Ohio, doesn't WANT EVENT 24 back. I'm pretty sure Mr. Fishburn will step up and help the ata when that place in ILLnews closes but that is because, from what I have read, he is a very generous man.

If it was me I would tell you and your pals to piss off.

How about those numbers you were told to check on? I don't see anything yet. What's up with that?

 

Ya Think Roger?

Just ignore this guy. I can handle it. He's just as easy as the other ones that come on and then disappear like the SCTP kids did from that place in ILLnews.

 

What's SCTP is that AIM??

 

I am trying to figure out how 3/4 million became $45 K. I'll let you know when I find out. BTW I understand that Fishburn meeting will be published in future meeting notes and he will be told to go "suck salt." The ATA will not bail out cash strcken OH. Like OH in OH.

 

He's all yours, Bro! My time is way too valuable to waste any more of it on losers like Baghdad Mike.

 

You are kidding right? Go back to your pals and ask them. Better yet, give gipson a call. He probably doesn't want to be reminded but you could ask.

 

Anybody else notice that when mike j gets frustrated his sentences start to sound like he is from another country?

Mike j, its POUND SAND, not "suck salt" LOL

If you want to see something that sucks look up the number of shooters in EVENT 24

If you want to see salt go ask gipson about the loss of the SCTP for TEN YEARS. That will rub some in the wound.

"Like OH in OH"

OK, I'm going to need a little help deciphering that little gem.

I don't have to be IN Ohio to like Ohio do I?

 

Well you wouldn't know if sarcasm hit you in the head with a 4 x 2 as we say in other countries. Are you a welfare recipient because it seems you have no brain. Leave discussion to people like Brad who are obviously way above your League. Go hang out with RC.

 

Flyer I think I just got a left handed complement. Mike J, I do know what I'm talking about, in fact I'll tell you how this all started. A member of the EC who just happens to be from a foreign country approached the CC staff at the 2019 Ohio State Shoot and asked them to summit a proposal to the EC because he is worried that it all mite go to shit in Illinois while he is occupying the big chair and he don't want that.

Against my recommendations, that is why Jack and the CC were in Sparta. True story whether you want to believe it or not.

 

It

Brad, I believe what you wrote even though it might not be the fact of what actually transpired. Remember Jack spent at least 3 days in Sparta so it doesn't sound to me he was in any driver position. I was told by an EC official DIRECTLY that the discussion with Jack was about better use of the Sparta facility. The official mentioned that there is NO way the Grand is going to leave Sparta. That's the truth I swear to.

 

By the way, I will ask the guy from Canada directly when I see him at the NE Grand because I know him personally and I have tremendous respect for him.

 

Alas poor mike j. has stooped to this, the name calling, the common denominator among all trolls. First the crack about a wheel chair and now welfare. And a brainless welfare recipient at that . More the pity.

mike j. I'm disappointed in you. I should have known better but I thought just maybe you would be a little smarter. Oh well, time to get another troll to take me on. Check with sidney or #2 will ya?

 

"Are you a welfare recipient because it seems you have no brain"

I might not be a genius but at least,

I NEVER FORGOT WHERE I LEFT MY SHOOTING CART.

SO, "The official mentioned that there is NO way the Grand is going to leave Sparta. That's the truth I swear to."


You believed an ata OFFICIAL and you think I have no brain.

That's some funny stuff right there I tell ya.

 

Mike J please just ask yourself why in the world would Jack Fishburn, who has no ties to Illinois, offer to help out the people of Illinois. Jack is a nice guy, not a dumb guy. Your friend from up north was worried that the other EC members would find out. I know what transpired and he knows what transpired at the Ohio State shoot.

I'm sure Merlo will get to the truth because he/she/it seems to get info from the inside on a lot of the goings on in Illinois. Merlo's info is usually right on the money, even if hard to decipher sometimes

I know he was told that the Cardinal Center is no bodies contingency plan. I know and have shot with the Canadian of which you speak, I also have been disappointed with many many EC members in the past who I have known and shot with who speak one way before they are elected an another after. I'll wait to make my final opinion, but it should trouble you as it does me that Jack's offer was never discussed by the BOD at the delegates meeting. It just adds more credence to me when I tell the CC staff that the EC can't be trusted. The CC was told to wait to December. If Sparta is there forever why would they (He) say that to the boys?

 

Fool, I knew exactly where I left my shooting cart which helped the cop tracked it down. Like I said leave intelligent discussions to the likes of Brad and HB, the only smart persons on this site even though they might not like why I have to say.

 

Brad we are talking past each other. Obviously you have one idea of why Jack went to Sparta and I heard another. You said all this was spurned from the foreign delegate which I am sure is the Canadian VP I know extremely well and I'll find out more when I talk to him. Regards.

 

WHY you have to say what?
That doesn't sound very intelligent.

You posted all those replies and started all those post directed at me and everything was just fine.Now, that I made you look stupid, you want me to bow out and leave you alone.

Hell man, all you had to do was aske me to quit picking on you.

 

Here, I'll fix it for you.

"Like I said leave intelligent discussions to the likes of Brad and HB, the only smart persons on this site even though they might not like why I have to say the things I do about the great facility that Mr. Fishburn built.

So, now that you and Brad and HB are pals, why don't you tell them WHY YOU SAY WHAT YOU DO about the CC.

 

Shows exactly what a nitpicking idiot you are. Over and out.

 

The shortest book in the library...Muslims I Met While Trapshooting.

 

Over and out?

You know you can't do that. Besides, you are going to tell your new pals Brad and HB WHY YOU SAY THE THINGS YOU DO ABOUT THE CARDINAL CENTER, remember?

You gong to call me gay next? That's usually the last resort for trolls like you.

 

I think I need to put you in for graduation from Village Idiot. What title would you like?

 

Mike J #2 would work

 

The remarks were not addressed to you. And like we say in other countries, mind your business less the adjective

 

Flyers,

Do you really think "Mike J. #2" would work? Please tell me why?

 

I suspect he wanted a name expressing something worse than being an Idiot.

He didn't like my suggestion, go figure.

 

You know who is really laughing?

sidney

He started the trolling and poor mike j was left going down with the ship.

Or maybe mike j IS sidney

 

I wonder if Sidney likes camels.

 

Brad, I believe what you wrote even though it might not be the fact of what actually transpired. Remember Jack spent at least 3 days in Sparta so it doesn't sound to me he was in any driver position. I was told by an EC official DIRECTLY that the discussion with Jack was about better use of the Sparta facility. The official mentioned that there is NO way the Grand is going to leave Sparta. That's the truth I swear to.

Mike J, Yesterday at 8:10 PM




I am sure glad they asked a REAL businessman (NOT hire a talking head) to come and help them figure out how best to utilize that place out in no man's land.

 

The WSRC has been promoted and over promoted over the years, the Martins gave out big checks to the winners in the past (over $500,000 in two years if I remember right ) and it increased the attendance by one shooter one of those years … Most people believe that without the assistance of the Martins as Signature Sponsors there would be no more grand American in Sparta, Ill … The WSRC cannot draw a crowd now 14 years later, to any logical and reasonable man that is a problem … The Majority of shooters who have shot the grand in the past and even ventured to the WSRC will not be coming back, the Pathetic attendance shows that to be a factual statement … The ATA probably has no choice but to stay in Sparta being as no other clubs wants to deal with them and cater to their every whim … There are many shooters who attend shoots at the Cardinal Center who used to shoot the grand, to them its traded places … Cardinal Center has all of the amenities needed for healthy growth and progress, the WSRC had WalMart (Thanks for your support) and little else to attract customers … The ATA is being run by a bunch of Mental Midgets or they would of been out of Illinois a long time ago based on the performance of the facility … There is nothing to argue about facts is facts … WPT … (YAC) …

 

It looks like they may be trying to put together a business plan. ( I have suggested this action for the last 10 years) I hope it is not to late to save the ATA. Of course they have never acted on any advise that was offered to them before, why should we believe they will now. Roger C.

 

The only way an alcoholic can be saved is simple. He has to have what it takes to save himself. The only way the ATA can be saved is for it to have what it takes to save itself. It doesn't have what it takes.

 

ATA - $5M in the bank after leaving Vandalia after 82 years. $19M in the bank after being at Sparta for just 14 years. $600,000 plus profit at the only the 2019 Grand. Enough said!

Can someone post similar details for OSTA?

 

Again, thank you for comparing the entire ata organization, to the Ohio STATE organization.

 

It's too bad that money can't buy honor and integrity. Money is easy. You can make a lot of money after you sell your soul to the Devil. Do Muslims believe in the Devil?

 

Why are you asking me Muslim question Idiot...I mean Village Idiot

 

Third in attendance at your " pretend grand" ?

No wager on if I can afford to shoot "trap"?

And the one question you should really be concerned with,

Why did you forget where you left your shooting cart?

My guess on the third?

Kool-Aid induced short term memory loss. You must still be suffering the after effects. You keep forgetting to answer my questions

I'll check back later to see how much you want to bet. We are heading out to the casino

 

If the ata made 600 grand at the week of the 2019 grand . How much did it make at Sparta the rest of the year being the ata home grounds? It was said that Vandilia was around for 82 years and went away. What makes you think Sparta is safe ?

 

There sure is a lot of discussion on the amount of shooters that have attended the Grand in Vandalia in years gone by compared to the number of shooters who have attended shoots at Sparta. Some of the shooters who went to the Grand in Vandalia will never attend another shoot anywhere, their dead. I’m 71 and have already lost a lot of friends who I used to shoot with. I’m the second oldest of my Sporting Clays team shooters but I’m the second youngest on my trap team. Seems to me the average age of trapshooters is significantly older than Sporting Clays shooters.

Trap and skeet never had as much competition for the shooting dollar as they do now. Sporting Clays has acquired a lot of shooters who primarily shot trap in years gone by but now they spend more of their dollars on Sporting Clays and 5 stand. They have come to like more variety in their targets.

I have just recently started to shoot more trap because going away targets are harder for me to hit consistently on the Sporting Clays course. I like all the clay target games but if time and money become an issue I’d shoot more Sporting Clays than either trap or skeet if I had to choose.

The future may become brighter for trap because of the great number of high school teams that are currently participating. Once they get out of school and have started to make their own living those who can afford it may come back to trap if they have any money left over after starting a family.

 

Sportshot2, You are correct in your observations. Now add to that the people that the ATA, EC has ignored and irritated with their uppity treatment of the membership. They hide every thing that they do. They moved the grand to the very state that the members said (DO NOT GO THERE). Their attitude is we are in charge you will do as we tell you. Roger C.

 

"There sure is a lot of discussion on the amount of shooters that have attended the Grand in Vandalia in years gone by compared to the number of shooters who have attended shoots at Sparta"

I did a really quick search of any place I could find entry numbers for at least the BIG Day.

Vandalia......1992-2005...…….56,894

sparta……...2006-2019...……29,284

Even if you knock off 1,200 from the anniversary year of 5,000 that is a hell of a difference.

All that place needed was another 27,610 shooters that we were told were going to make up the difference.

Just sayin

 

I can’t argue that the numbers are smaller nor can you say they would still be the same if Vandalia was still functioning. How about this 27610/13 years = 2124. Is it possible considering the age of many trapshooters that on average 2124 died or quit shooting for whatever reason? Just comparing numbers you can’t prove that those 27,610 less shooters would still be shooting if Vandalia was still open. If you can prove it list their names and ATA#. (Sarcasm, a joke)

I don’t know but has anyone compared how the ATA membership has fared over that same period? Just because members don’t go to Sparta doesn’t mean that their not shooting registered targets at their local club. Take the kids out of any new memberships to make a fair comparison.

 

Is the Leadership of the ATA appointed or are they elected by the membership? I’m a new ATA member so I really don’t know.

 

It is 14 years and using that number would make it 1,972 per year that stopped going after the move to that place. That is why I always say 2000 short.

I got the joke.

 

The demographics have changed dramatically. History Buff could tell you what the average age of the competitors was in 1968. He can also tell you what the average age was in 2018. How many girls/women competed in 1968 as opposed to 2018. I'm afraid that the argument that the youth will save trapshooting might not be a solid argument. Once Mom and Pop stop paying, it'll be a long time before junior and junyette will have the serious money it takes to participate. Tie that to a dwindling base of seniors and you've got a train wreck.

Trapshooting needs real leadership, and it needs it now. Ragging on what used to be ain't gonna fix nuthin'.

 

OK, I got it 2000-1972=28. Is the 28 the democrats cemetery vote?