How does An ATA Director Earn $186,000 yr ?

I would do it for $50,000 + exp. & Reset the Rules by ATA Shooters voting fir it.

GB............................DLS

 

Why don’t you try to do it? I’m sure the ec would be open to cheaper options if you can bring more money in.

 

? "How does an ATA Director earn $186,000/yr.?" Easy. Effectively and patiently listen to thousands of 'experts' claiming to say how to run the organization; be willing to travel all over the country to attend shoots and listen to more 'experts' face-to-face; organize, staff, and ensure that shoots run to the enjoyment of all attendees, etc. etc. Yes, $186K seems about right....could be a little low.

Having been on the board of a couple of clubs, I learned that a lot of 'experts' have opinions on how things ought to run, but disappear when they are asked to play a role in getting things done. Paying their annual dues gives people the "right" to express their opinion...but not shoulder any responsibility. But, that is society today: Everybody has RIGHTS...Organizations have the RESPONSIBILITY. Think about it. Have a Nice Day. Ed

 

186K maybe a little low?

So was 2,003 shooters for the last GAH at that place in IL

Has to listen to all the "experts"?

Hell, for 186K I would hope he WAS the expert

 

It seems doubtful that Trapshooters across the sport decide to whether to attend the GAH only on the basis of Director compensation. Regards, Ed

 

Cant argue with that.

 

The point is, for 186K, he should be doing something to get more people to enter what was once the largest event of the year. An increase of 258 shooters from 2017 to 2018 doesn't sound like a fantastic direction.

You used the term "experts". I know what you were implying. The so called "experts" are just a bunch of people that offer criticism and don't do anything to help.
You were on a board so you can sympathize with anyone that has to listen to their members complain and not offer to help. I get it. I was on our board, more than once,over 1000 members, and heard it all then some.

Big deal, I volunteered to do it so it goes with the territory. You can't volunteer then complain that you have to listen to someone bitch.

I don't know how much they paid you, we did it for free, but if I had an EMPLOYEE that was getting 186K I would damn well make sure he was earning it. Having to listen to a bunch of "experts" doesn't seem like tough enough work to warrant 186K

 

oldgoat, Sitting on the board of a gun club does not qualify one to be the director of a multi million corp. Ability to grow the business is directly in line with the directors salary. Results are the only thing that leads to good compensation in any well run business. Up to now the director of the ATA has not had a stellar performance with growth. Having sat on the board of real corporations, I can assure you results reign supreme. Roger C.

 

PAID vs volunteer

Can't argue with that

 

I was on the Board/President and it only cost me about $12,000 out of pocket for the time I served plus what we on the board kicked in (donated ) to keep things going a few times ... I probably could of turned in an expense report (work sheet) and got reimbursed but it was a worth while education ... Lot of truth to people wanting to tell you how to do it but none of them want to or even help for that matter ... Got a lot of things done that should of and could of been done years before so all it did was add to the clubs debts when all was said and done ...The Board that was on before the Board I was on did nothing other than tell everyone they were on the Board and complain that no body would do anything yet they didn't either ... WPT ... (YAC) ..

 

Hello. First, I certainly don't want to get into some contentious discussion on this thread. I have simply offered my thoughts re: the question posed in the title of this thread.
Second, the boards I served on were totally voluntary, like yours, unpaid, but the memberships were smaller. I do NOT complain about that experience; I totally agree with you. Don't volunteer and then whine about it.
Finally, it appears you missed my comments about the things an ATA Director does besides listening to the opinions of members. The ATA is much more than a forum for complaints, but it seems like there are plenty of complaints that it has to deal with. Sorry if you got that impression from my reply.
Regards, Ed

Regards, Ed

 

$186k is not a huge amount if there are no benefits like pension or bonus added. Heck, I make more than that with my benefits included. However, what are we the shooters getting for paying him that salary? I see nothing new being proposed to attract new shooters. The ATA should have more information about shooters accomplishments so others can strive to be acknowledged someday. The All American standing is not enough!

 

"Sitting on the board of a gun club does not qualify one to be the director of a multi million corp. Ability to grow the business is directly in line with the directors salary. Results are the only thing that leads to good compensation in any well run business. Up to now the director of the ATA has not had a stellar performance with growth."

And one's handicap average should not disqualify a shooter from being on the handicap committee, the EC or the directory as suggested in another thread.

Eli Goldratt, taught the free world that the the goal of a a company is to make more money (net profit) now as well as the future. The goal of a privately held 501c are not always measured in terms of growth as it relates to net profit.

Going from good to great must be driven by providing great customer service/satisfaction as defined by the customers.

 

No where on that thread doe it say handicap disqualifies anyone.

It does imply that someone with a 80 average from the 27 will not be in favor of going back to 3 hole targets whether it is in the best interest of the sport or not. And it shows the BOD is the problem not the solution.

Garry.....if you want to further that discussion how about going onto that thread? Or would you rather jab and run here? You decide.

 

Smithy,

As you can see, I am new to this website. I haven't found a way to edit my posts for typos or content. I thought this was supposed to be the "friendly website".

 

I think the word is "open" not friendly.

 

The person who told me about the site used the word friendly, but I am OK with the word open, but the key to success in my opinion is the word respectful.

 

3 posting vacations myself. Didn't think any of those were friendly.

 

I think the problem is the fact that Lynn ( the Talking Head ) Gipson has not produced and or made any progress for the ATA that could be considered beneficial to the Membership or to preserve the existence of the Association for generations yet to come ... I have read many things about the ATA and even have a book that I purchased beside gathering information from people like "History Buff " who by the way is amazing ... Lynn ( The Talking Head) Gipson shot himself in the foot some years ago by claiming the ATA (grand American ) generates 20 to 30 million dollars in the local region and area around Sparta (this we all know is nothing short of unadulterated BS, then there was a claim that there was 15,000 shooters in the area and another 15,000 on site (1,000 camping spots) yet they cannot draw a crowd bigger than 2,003 shooters for the Premiere Event in the Trap Shooting Championships ... The job that Lynn ( The Talking Head ) Gipson and his performance to date would be considered PATHETIC at best and in any normal Corp he would of been eliminated post haste, as would many on the EC and several on the BOD ...The falsification of attendance numbers and generated income in it self would be grounds to be handed walking papers ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

You don't keep the ED position by growing the sport, you keep it by not making any waves with the EC, turning a blind eye to what goes on, plus being a yes man. The 186K is the reward for doing so. Look how long his predecessor lasted by trying to clean things up.

 

Let me be the first to say THANK YOU!
I gave the guy too much credit. You are more than likely 100% correct

 

At "$186,000 yr" ..... it makes One wonder if any part of that amount is a "form" of "trickle down economics" .....

 

Gooooood Suction ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

My $55,000 would increase profits by $133,000.00. Immeaditly. I would eliminate un-necessary expenses. Change the Trophy Presentations to EVERTYBODY.
Cut expenses to the BOD, and EC, no shooting expenses, they pay their way. Eliminate the CHC Gatherings, and use Teleconferences. Eliminate Petty Complaints w/warnings. Only LOSE shooting rights w/proper Offenses that require it, not delegated. Offer shooters shells at discounted prices, LG the TH would lose his position for lack of performance of earning his paycheck. No alcohol consumption during shooting HOURS. EC & BOD pay for all meals, drinks, & Travel after arriving at GRand American, it is not a free ride. Targets to be COMPETETIVE AT ANGLES, HEIGHT & DISTANCE On All Events. Angles to be legal 3 yards wider on posts #1 & Post #5 and be set at that angle, Distance to be 50-52 Yards, from post #3. Shooters may shoot THEIR OWN NEW SHELLS. All shells shot during Grand American Week must be NEW legal ATA Shells. Target requirements to shoot the Grand, 750 of each discipline of record. Senior Shooters over 65 yrs. Exempt.

20 yard handicap is minimum yardage, Shooters MUST MAINTAIN THE YARDAGE AVERAGE, If they cannot, they MUST TAKE MANDATORY REDUCTIONS, AND NO EXCEPTIONS. Shooters may NOT INCREASE THEIR YARDAGE.\

Every body enters, but are squaded by YARDAGE computer generated selections, including BANKS and POSITIONS, No Favortism.

SHOOTERS WOULD HAVE TO LOOK AT ALPHABETICALLY LISTED NAMES TO FIND THEIR SHOOTING POSITIONS, SQUADS A DAY AHEAD OF TIME TO AVOID CONFLICTS.

The FORD PURSES would be MANDATORY Normally this was a $5.00 option, but feel it should be increased to $10.00.
Ford purses would only be on the GRAND AMERICAN HANDICAP.

All Sattelite Grands must follow target settings as dictated by the GRAND WEEK of the GRAND AMERICAN.\

Well that is my Idea of how the ATA Should be run.

The ATA President to be elected by the Members, no getting in line. AND NO FREE TRAPGUNS



Gary Bryant...................................Dr.Longshot

 

Gary, I like most of your ideas.

 

Gary,

You have a multitude of good to great ideas which means you are never going to get Lynn (The Talking Head ) Gipsons job because you would be eliminating most of what and why those on the EC as well as a some on the BOD are involved for ... I can see them all right now sitting there sucking up some of the free booze they collected as they were being entertained at some of the shoots laughing so hard they will probably wet them self or each other ... Gary (DLS) for President ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

We should remember what happened to Dr. Rively when he searched those secret hiding places!

 

Don't look behind the curtain, everything is just fine, just fine I say, we are going in a fantastic direction and there is no need to look behind the......Oh darn, now you did it.

 

check Garry & Roger C.'s posts on the over handicapped delegates. Roger C.

 

These are Competetion Targets, Consider the Grand American Targets, Like the OLYMPICS of Trapshooting, only the best of the Best, Like it used to be.

Trapshooting was meant to be Competetive. If you cannot stand the Competetion stay on the porch with the EC & BOD, they cannot Walk the Walk, They cannot even Talk The Talk. The Competetive Trapshooters should be able to BEAT THE BOD & EC hands down.

I can see Neil Winston shoot his First 25 Hdcps, then get out his Laptop, and delay the shoot as he usually does, trying to figure out his Target Lead.

This man can stand being BEAT, That is why the ATA has xxxxx Targets in the first Place. Everybody gets a trophy.

Ohio, Pennsylvania, West Virginia & Kentucky shoot Competetive Targets.\

The ATA should be producing The Best Of The Best Competetive Shooters, as that is what it is supposed to be.

Neil Winston could not walk with 2 pails of milk, let alone shoot Competetive Targets.

He Tries to Dazzle you with Graphs, You put in Garbage, You Get Garbage Out.

When was the Last Time Neil shot at the Cardinal Center?

GB.....................................DLS

 

Gary,
I applaud you for stating your ideas but as you know the ED does not have nor will he get the power to implement your ideas and that's too bad. The EC does not want to loose their power and give it back to the members.

 

Gary
If your ideas were put in place you would really have something to talk about! Half the ATA shooters we have today!

 

T-Shot, what do you suggest the ATA members do? Stick their head in the sand while the ATA dies a slow death? That is not the America that I know and fought for. The America that I know has always had a can do and a I don't quit attitude. Do you not believe its worth the effort to make rule and policy changes that might right the ship and provide hope for the future of the ATA? The current process for implementing change within the ATA is not working because it's a flawed process.

Gary Bryant and others have put forth some ideas that in my opinion are worth serious consideration. If ATA management does not change course soon, the future of the ATA is not good. And I believe in my heart, that most trapshooters want to see the ATA to come roaring back to life.

Garry

 

Garry
What I'm saying is maybe most shooters don't like or want the changes that Longshot & and others want. Not that they are wrong just that current shooters don't want the changes! I would like to see some of them.

 

T Shot,

I hope we can agree on my quote above.

 

Lynn Gipson should be FIRED for non-performance.


GB.............................DLS

 

The ATA paid $186,000 for nothing from LG

GB..............................DLS

 

Garry I agree. Now how do we change it? Can it be changed with the people who are in charge now? I hope so I think they want the ATA to succeed.

 

T Shot,

One can just do a Google search "on the steps for implementing changes" and find more articles than they probably want to read. However, most of these articles have a lot of commonality that can be summarized in the steps listed below.

1. Management and employees/members must acknowledge and understand the need for change.
2. Management and employees/members must identify the processes, rules or policies that need to be changed.
3. Management and employees/members must agree on what to change to.
4. Management must develop and clearly communicate an approved implementation plan that clearly identifies who is going to do what by when.
5. After the change(s) have been implemented, management must monitor, verify and report whether or not the change(s) are having the desired effect and adjust accordingly. If adjustments are required, management and employees/members will need to work together again starting with step 3.

A company/organization can embrace change and grow or they can fight changes, refuse to adapt, and watch their business/organization die a slow and painful death.

When you're finished changing, you're finished" - author Ben Franklin.

 

Ed, Quite a few years ago I was a member at the Miramar Trap and Skeet Club in San Diego and was complaining about something. (I know, I know, trapshooters never complain but I was at the time.) One of the current board members told me there was an election coming up in about two weeks and nobody was running for President so if I was so correct about how things should be then I should run. Sure. Happy to do it. I can run this place.
Well, I was President for 4 years and got so sick of all the bitching about everything you could possibly imagine I could not believe it. (And, I had the unbelievable advantage of having a full time manager to run the place under my direction, Harvey Fisher, God rest his kind soul.) And, on top of the BS bitching about things like where the porta potties were placed and whether a hose had been left improperly rolled up, we had real serious issues dealing with our lease with the Navy/Marines and lead and etc.
After 4 years (two terms) I was done.
I didn't go to the club for a couple of years after that. When I did, someone pointed out to me that almost every past President of the club had essentially stopped shooting and going to the club after their term. Apparently, trying to run the place took all the fun out of it. I could not believe it but we sat down and looked at the last 5 or 6 Presidents and virtually none of them still showed up at the club for anything.
I can't imagine what crap someone who is trying to run the ATA must have to put up with. $186k a year for a big time exec ain't much.

 

It took a long time to get to the punch line. Gipson is a "BIG TIME EXEC."

It was worth the read just to get to that description. Pull2012 had a "BIG TIME EXEC." maybe more.

 

The boys that orchestrated Pull2012 should be DOING time.

 

Dude, You do realize you are on a trapshooter web site, right? Have you spent much time around trapshooters?

 

I have been quite removed from the ATA for several years and only been shooting non-registered birds. Could someone please tell me what Pull2012 is?
Thanks, Jake

 

I don't know the players. I got no dog in this. (Though I do love trapshooting and clays shooting in general and wish the avocation success and even growth.) But I agree with the above statement for almost all bureaucratic, political, power positions. Sadly.
And, those who entrench such things usually feed off it or its disintegrating carcass.
I hope that is not the case with the ATA.
Any job or responsibility I ever had in this game was without compensation and usually, without thanks.

 

Jake, search the forum thread titles for, Case of the Company / llc that never existed? Pull 2012 and the ATA

That should work

 

http://www.americantrapshooter.com/...hat-never-existed-pull-2012-and-the-ata.3058/

 

Thank you Flyers and Oak. I read the entire thread. I am pretty good at reading through stuff and picking out the facts, aka evidence, but I had difficulty with this. Kind of like reading the first half of The Brothers Karamazov by Dostoyevsky. The names are foreign to me and its kind of hard to retain the players and follow the plot.
But, my take on that thread is that some one or ones on the ATA BOD may have cut an inside deal to purchase the land in Illinois (Sparta), using a business (and essentially a Pseudonym) called Pull-2012, that became the home of the Grand after it left Vandalia. They found the property, bought it under the table, turned around and made a long term lease of the land to the ATA at very favorable rates. Pretty strong implication of insider trading and breach of fiduciary duty as I read the allegations in the thread.
Is that a correct take on the thread?
If so, could someone tell the alleged story in a straightforward way? Sorry, its hard to follow in that thread for those who don't know the players.
Best regards, Jake

 

Jakearoo,

The main issue to start with was the fact that in any of the minutes, they only stated PULL, LLC, and left out the 2012 portion of the title.

Seeking answers got a response (Anonymously) that the membership will be notified of certain details on a Need To Know Basis. This was part of answer to the question of who the people were that made up this LLC. For some reason it looked as if they didn't want the membership to know.

This led to many members researching, and it was discovered that the minutes had erroneously left out the 2012 when recording the LLC who the ATA was negotiating with. It certainly had the members wondering if this was an intentional error or not, to throw off the membership from finding out who the people involved actually were.

This led to much speculation, and the minutes error was brought to the attention of the ATA, through a letter to Gipson (if memory serves me correctly) and a request to have the minutes corrected was never honored.

AND, this led to more research which found a lot of suspicious negotiations with 2012 Pull, LLC and the ATA.

Sort of water over the dam now, but the distrust with the ATA and EC became a firestorm at that time.

Someone had a LOT of FACTS and figures and posted them on this site. They were amazing to read, and a sorry state to see what had taken place.

It was a long road, and like the Democrats say, " It's just a little headache and if we take a couple aspirins, it will go away ".

And the headache did go away. The membership gave up the questioning as they got nowhere, and such is life in the ATA.

 

Brads friend (I hope),

Sometime in the past, I heard or read that the official minutes of our ATA, mistakenly identified the landlord and future seller of the property now housing the ATA office.

I also recall hearing a few years ago that requests were sent to the ATA to correct the error.

I just reviewed the old ATA minutes and scanned the relevant notations where the proper name of 2012 Pull, LLC should have replaced Pull, LLC which incorrectly identifies the owner of the 1105 East Broadway St. property.

It is unfortunate that no one within ATA leadership cared enough to properly investigate the accusations of the involvement of an ATA Executive Committee member with 2012 Pull LLC and the possible violation of ATA Conflict of Interest Policy or even wanted to ask any questions about it.

Either the other Zone Vice-Presidents, Real Property Advisory Committee Members and Board of Directors (Delegates) were aware of and saw no collusion or conflict issue, or they were all complacent in their duties in upholding the integrity of our organization.

No doubt that many have read about this issue on this forum and I've been told that some current members of the Executive Committee know of these allegations, yet not one official has ever called for an investigation required by the ATA's Conflict of Interest rules.

Here's some information supporting your claim and to help readers better understand the alleged hanky panky that went on under the noses of our leadership. There remain so many unanswered questions about the ATA office lease and purchase.

Sadly, only a few members have demanded transparency and integrity by management of our ATA.
None have been Delegates or E. C. members.

​

The below document was sent by the ATA to the Illinois Attorney General's Office in response to the investigation.

​

If I were an E. C. member reading this report I'd be compelled to challenge its accuracy.

And a few questions would immediately come to mind :

1. How did WE (the ATA) overlook the 1105 E. Broadway St. property during their exhaustive search? We could have bought it for $10 and other good and valuable conditions.

2. Why did ATA member Patrick Dawson, of Midland, TX make a speculative purchase of the property in hopes of leasing and selling property on the market for some time, instead of simply bringing it to the attention of the ATA?

3. How did Mr. Dawson learn of 2012 Pull LLC, a new company incorporated February 3, 2012 by lawyer Walter P. Robertson, of Junction City, KS who names CPA Dale Ramsey as agent?

4. Why doesn't the name Patrick Dawson, of Midland, TX appear on the incorporation papers?

5. Who actually was behind the creation and funding 2012 Pull LLC? Was it ATA Vice President Rob M. Taylor who used the law firm of Walter P. Robertson in 2008 to incorporate the new Kansas Trap Shooting Association in December 2008?

6. Why did ATA President Jeff Wagner sign a lease agreement with Patrick Dawson, member of 2012 PULL LLC, on February 23, 2012, to lease the 1105 E. Broadway St. property starting March 1, 2012 when Mr. Dawson did not officially own the property until March 9, 2012?

7. Why did Patrick Dawson sell the property on June 1, 2012, to 2012 Pull LLC?

8. Why did Patrick Dawson sell the property on October 8, 2012 to the Amateur Trapshooting Association when they were already under a 3-year contract to lease the property?

9. Why did VP Taylor fail to inform the ATA of his involvement in 2012, Pull LLC and the lease and sale of the E. Broadway St. property, which possibly is a conflict of interest?

10. Why did the Real Property Advisory Committee, whose duty it was to conduct due diligence, fail to uncover important details of the lease and purchase of the property?

What a wonderful stroke of luck or coincidence that a property that nobody seemed interested in, was sold 3 times in 7 months.

Oh, and there are still many more unanswered questions. Our ATA leadership should be asking Past President Rob M. Taylor many questions about his involvement with 2012 Pull LLC. After all, his signature appears as the only owner of 2012 Pull LLC on documents filed with the Kansas Secretary of State when he dissolved the corporation in August 2013. Perhaps 2012 Pull LLC served its purpose and was no longer needed.

And while ATA Controller Michael R. Howell reported that Mr. Taylor stated he "refrained from voting pursuant to the ATA Conflict of Interest Policy," the April 8, 2012 E. C. Minutes starting at line 422 suggest otherwise.

Thank you Brad's friend (I hope).

HB

 

There you have it, one neat little package ... If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck , you get where I'm going with this ...? WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Wow. Thanks for that. It is enlightening and also not so much, eh?
Well, I guess a core question is what did Taylor and Dawson (through 2012 Pull, LLC or otherwise) pay for the property and when?
Should be able to do a public document search for the recorded property transactions. Also, 2012 Pull, LLC should have recorded documents with the State to establish the LLC. And, there must have been an Escrow company or Title insurance company involved in the transfer(s). Those transfer documents should tell most of the story.
Those documents can be subpoenaed if they are not voluntarily given up. (Course, would have to file a lawsuit to get subpoena power but an ATA member could bring a representative action to get that power.)

By the way, the "10.00 and other good and valuable considerations" is just legal jargon on a deed. It does not mean that the property sold for $10.00. It is a way of recording a deed with out disclosing what it sold for. Commonly used in most states. But the property taxes assessed should give an idea of the value and there have to be purchase agreements and closing documents somewhere that show the purchase price and they can be found with a bit of effort.

 

This is my understanding too Jakearoo.

The Parcel Information Report shows the property was sold to Patrick Dawson for $75,000.

​

Here's a timeline with deed information. All information has been obtained and on file.

​

 

Thanks. So Dawson (or him and his 2012 Pull, LLC partners) made 25 grand on the deal? That may not be so bad especially if the ATA bought the property for 100k when it had an appraised value of $139,000. And, the ATA bought it "on a contract," so did they get good terms?
But to do the deal with out disclosures, and especially for Taylor who was a board member and obviously involved, is certainly a breach of fiduciary duty. And it is especially a breach of fiduciary duty for Taylor though he said he made nothing on the deal but he formed 2012 Pull, LLC soooo.... it doesn't look too good.
If it was a good deal that required a whole bunch of effort to pull off then they should have done it in the open. At least when they were closing the deal. And none of the fiduciaries (EC or BOD) should have made a dime.
At least, that's my, now slightly educated, take.

 

Earth to Jakearoo!
NO!
The appraisal came after the appraiser knew the ATA was renting the joint for 30K a year. The junk property was almost worthless before the ATA did the renovation and paid the rental fee to Taylor's group. It was a slummy abandoned ex-red barn hamburger building.

The ATA and Taylor and Co had a contract for rental years 2012, 2013, 2014 and 2015. $30K a year for those years plus the sale price for previously worthless property.

 

Ok Smithy. That's why I recited what I understood. And there is no question that appraisers can be manipulated and often rather easily. But, you don't need the "Earth to Jake" crap with me. I am trying to learn/understand what went on. And, I am not a slow study on this kind of thing.
So, I am now unclear on the sale to the ATA. Was the sale for 100k PLUS the rent of 30k per year? Again, make it simple for me. You don't need to be hostile. I ain't takin' sides here. Just trying to understand. Its pretty clear that a breach of fiduciary duty took place. But what was the payoff/damages to the ATA? How would you quantify that?

 

Jakearoo, This is only one of a few of the under the table deals that are suspected. And members wonder why the shooters have no faith in the EC or BOD. Could this be why many members are not active any more. I feel like I am a financing member of the good ole boy's club. Evil will prevail, when honest men do nothing to stop it. Roger C.

 

Sorry Jake.....some of us have been a bit miffed about this for a long time. The ATA thugs gave the rent money and the sale amount. Then the ATA creeps at the top said they didn't know anything about it. That is where the anger comes in. Sorry about the anger management issue.

 

Jakearoo,

First, I sincerely thank you for asking questions.

However, you are making a lot of assumptions which may or may not be accurate.

Mr. Dawson certainly knows if he profited on the sale or not, as do any others associated with the 2012 Pull Limited Liability Company.

Yes, the ATA reported buying the property at a price of $100,000 and reported in the Minutes of its appraised value of almost $133K. It would have been nice if they reported the total expenses the ATA paid relating to the property.

The below document is in support or your statement that some "appraisers can be manipulated and often rather easily."
Its an online appraisal shortly after the ATA purchased the 1105 E. Broadway St. property. This appraisal was done after the figures used by the ATA, and for some reason, came in a little lower.

​

This document will help explain additional expenses incurred by the ATA which should be added to the $100,000 purchase price.

​

And, in their haste to move out of Vandalia, ATA officials forgot to provide notice to the City of Dayton and were required to continue to pay rent, utilities, insurance and property taxes on the old homegrounds until February 2013 I believe.

You won't see many of these documents anywhere else. I doubt any of the Board of Directors have seen them.

Wouldn't it be nice if just one Delegate was concerned enough to demand of an investigation in search of the truth and all the details?

As I said earlier . . . . . . there's certainly a lot of unanswered questions regarding the lease and purchase of the ATA office.

Hope this is helpful.

 

Here is some reading for you .....

http://www.americantrapshooter.com/...eral-2012-pull-investigation.2734/#post-27872

This link ...... https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1105-E-Broadway-St-Sparta-IL-62286/2142507712_zpid/ ...... on that thread still works and says "24,539" NOT the "$132,843" the "ATA" said ..... And "$850/mo rent" NOT the $2,500 the "ATA was paying .....

 

Well, That is all very interesting. So is there a belief and evidence that it was not just an underlying, undisclosed purchase for 75,000 but that in fact there was an earlier deal that bought the property even cheaper?
And, I don't know the property. Never been there. But it says 1.5 acres which is about 1/3 larger than similar properties. In some cases, that enlarged property, particularly in a good area is worth the 1/3 more than that paid for "similar properties."
But, I am being a bit of a devil's advocate here.
I get that the rental income, on top of the marked up property and expenses, looks pretty dirty.
Again, who ever is hiding this stuff and the underlying stuff supporting it doesn't appear to be too proud of what they did.

Another question from a guy who's been away from the sport for a while and never to Sparta, how does this building tie into the trap fields which house the event(s)? Did the ATA buy that property? If leased, did the same crew do hidden deals for that real estate?

 

Jake,
The WSRC (shooting facility) is owned and operated by the State of Illinois as a recreational park ... It is strip mined property that was owned by Peabody coal and has 3 man made lakes on it, 1000 camping spots, 3 1/2 mile long trap line which has trap machines provided by the ATA ... These trap machines were purchased with monies that were collected as a relocation fee that the ATA attached to each entry some years back for several years ... The members were not told of the purchase until after it was done so that creates another shady area, some where 6 or 8 machines got lost in the process never to be seen or heard from again ... (relocation fees = trap machines ) ... Those that were bidding on supplying machines were told to not even bother so the deal was obviously cut before any bids were even compared ... The State of Illinois has added over (25 Million) $25,000,000 to the State deficit in the years the WSRC has been in existence so they pretty much have distanced them self from any obligations (financial) regarding said property ... No body seems to know who is paying what when it comes to the facility and or if there is even the existence of a lease any longer between the ATA and State of Illinois ... That in itself was a cluster F _ _ _ , to say the least ... The ATA paid (donated) $250,000 to the Hall of Fame on behalf of the members for a horse barn that was grossly over priced ($1,000,000 plus) but left the HOF asking members for additional monies to pay their portion of a State owned building ... Mr Bill Martin and his wife are very generous benefactors to the existence of the ATA being at the WSRC but no body really knows to what extent ... Electric bills exceeding $100,000 have been hanging over the head of the facility for what seems to be forever (these had been posted by HB many times over ) ... The ED, EC, and many of the BOD have made the ATA their proverbial "Cash Cow" , that pays their way to shoots, rental cars, new shot guns, and accommodations of Rock Stars as well as feed them ... They collect big expenses for their volunteering to represent the membership but avoid them at all cost at the shoots (for the most part) ... If this and the actions of the ED, EC, and some of the BOD were a Porno movie it would be the KINKIEST of all time ... The so called promotions that the ATA says they do is minimal at best being as they lose members every year and cannot draw a crowd at what used to be the Grand Daddy of shoots known as the grand American Championships, this past year they finally broke the 2,000 mark with entries (2003) since the relocation to Sparta, Ill ... If this ever becomes a movie it will be a hit for sure, hopefully in the conclusion of there will be hanging etc ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Anyone know why Galloway used some other name for his email on Feb. 20, 2012 ?

Just curious as to who Ron Clark is, and why/how Galloway was using this Ron's email address...

Again, just curious

 

It would appear to divert from the obvious making it hard to follow, it would appear that they were all in this together. You watch my back and I'll do the same for you/

 

ATA Secretary Galloway apparently asked that the lease be emailed to his office rather than his shootata.com email.

That decision can raise suspicious, especially when he has not corrected the official ATA Minutes. It is important that minutes be accurate because as odd as it may bee, there was in fact a company named PULL, LLC, legally registered in Illinois which was dissolved in 2011.

Any one reading the ATA minutes and trying to research PULL LLC will hit a dead end, since that company no longer is in business and has no connection to the ATA. The minutes should be corrected.

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And for those who like to see verifying documents with their own eyes, as well as those who might doubt what's been reported, here is a copy of the dissolution paper when 2012 PULL LLC, completing its one and only purpose, was dissolved.

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HB,

I came up with the same results when I researched this: ronclarkattrap email address

Still seems strange to me

And what a time I had back then attempting to research PULL, LLC

The government came through with some interesting LLCs in Illinois, and that is how I located the 2012 Pull, LLC.

I assume you did the same study, with the same results and you carried it on for us, and got a lot of information about this 2012 Pull, LLC.

We Thank You for that, and the newer folks on this site should know that is what some of us attempted to do, Keep the EC and Delegates on their toes, even if it didn't work out.

With the minutes never being corrected, it makes one wonder what else we don't know ?

Oh heck I forget....I'm on a "Need to know Basis", which still pi**es me off to think I received that statement.