Gold Medal Grand shot quality?

What about the shot in Federal Gold Medal Grands?

I've read where some have declared the new Gold Medal Grand junk. I understand that to some any steel rimmed ammo is junk. But they declare its shot as junk. Federal says it has hard shot. What about the shot in Federal Gold Medal Grands?

 

From an ad produced by Federal

"We use a special lead alloy that provides the hardness of 5 percent antimony lead.”

Make note of the words, special alloy that provides the hardness of 5 percent antimony lead

Not pure lead? I guess the steel base was not the only thing they changed to save money.

 

FEATURES
•Two-piece wad utilizes SoftCell™ technology to decrease perceived recoil and produce more uniform patterns than one-piece designs
•Rigid PrimerLock™ head improves primer sensitivity, ensuring proper ignition in the event of a light hit
•Lead shot is engineered for the optimum blend of hardness and density for even patterns and maximum downrange power
•Integral base wad maximizes reloadability

Got this off of Federals web site ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

I think I got to get me some and try them ....
Federal's new 12 Gauge Target Shotshell: Federal Premium Gold Medal Grand



Federal has announced a new line of twelve gauge target ammunition, with all kinds of impressive claims.


“Gold Medal Grand produced from 11 to 17 percent less peak force than the competitive brands we tested,” says Dan Compton of Federal. “It also had roughly 5 percent less recoil than current Gold Medal shotshells, and generated a much narrower, more consistent range of force.”


“We use a special lead alloy that provides the hardness of 5 percent antimony lead.”


“Testing conducted by Federal Premium engineers revealed that significantly more pellets from Gold Medal Grand loads hit inside a 30-inch circle at 40 yards compared to standard Gold Medal. The average increase in pattern efficiency was nearly 5 percent—coming in at 77.09 versus 72.96 percent. But, because Gold Medal Grand also has much less standard deviation, gains in efficiency were often even higher when comparing individual rounds against one another.”


Indeed, standard SAAMI-approved drop-test procedures showed new Gold Medal Grand outperformed standard Gold Medal and competitor ammunition in zero-offset and .025-inch offset impacts on the primer cup.

“You basically drop a heavy ball bearing onto a primer head from gradually lower heights until the rounds stop firing. This is called the ‘all fire height,’” says Compton. “In zero-offset testing, current Gold Medal fired at drop heights down to 11 inches; Gold Medal Grand fired at down to just 9 inches, which was better than all the competitive ammo tested.” When the bearing’s impact was shifted .025 inches off center, Gold Medal Grand fired at 14 inches, well above original Gold Medal and the rest of the competition. This testing conducted at Federal Premium facility in Anoka, MN.

“Testing conducted at Federal Premium’s facility showed you can reload Gold Medal Grand hulls an average of 16 to 17 times, which is better than regular Gold Medal and competitive brands we tested,” he added. “Individual results for Gold Medal Grand ran as high as 25 reloads with no deformities, which is truly remarkable given that most shooters don’t reload a shotshell more than 10 times.”


So, there you have it. According to Federal, higher pattern percentages than their previous best shell, the Gold Medal, lower recoil, and a one piece hull with an average of 16 – 17x reload life. I'll be testing theGMT178 7.5 loads shortly: 1-1/8 oz., #7-1/2 shot, 1235 fps. They certainly look like good shells, but the ad-blurb doesn't reveal much, nor does the packaging on the box. The claim of higher pattern efficiency, about 4%, doesn't mean anything without the data that backs it up: shotgun used, choke used, number of shots fired, and so forth. "Providing the hardness of 5% antimony lead" doesn't mean that it actually is 5% antimony lead, just that Federal feels that it is their equivalent.

More to follow as testing proceeds.

 

The plastic used in the Grand is definitely different than that used in, at least, the last few batches of Gold Medal. I cannot attest to shot hardness etc but my experience with the hull and base indicate long hull life and tight primers...... my 9000H has no problems with the copper washed base and the primers stay tight. I am using a special depriming tool so performance from others may differ a bit...... the discussion over steel vs brass will continue for a long time my my loader does not seem to care. Does the gun?? I suspect not but my supply of brass based hulls will no doubt outlast my shooting career. Shot hardness??? Others will determine that but my very limited use of them was from the 16 and they worked just fine........ Larry

 

I saw a Cabellas ad showing rebate of $2./box limit 50 boxes to start 3/1/18. For that price break, I will try 5 cs just to see!

 

Where is the '' Graph Master'' when you really need him?

 

Here's what I made out of a few new Gold Medals. [ATTACH

 

If the "Graph Master" is who I think it is, I found a post at the "Other Website" indicating his initial test suggest the shot is as hard as the previous Gold Medal shot. But he adds that it will take patterning to confirm that, and this time of year is not conducive to patterning. I'm looking forward to patterning weather and then his results.

 

Here it is again:


I'm sure we all hope it says visible this time.

Let me reiterate the WARNING in the table so there's no misunderstanding. Though in the past the shot which showed the greatest resistance to being crushed lead to the highest pattern percentages in testing, that no longer can be assured. I cannot (yet) account for that, though I'm working on it.

N1H1

 

Nothing odd about this site. If you do want to know what some people think is "wrong" with us just go over to the old site and read some of those posts. Yours included.

BTW, me asking for something from the mastergrapher is just sarcasm. I for one couldn't care less if you ever posted anything.

"I'm sure we all hope it says visible this time."

I hope it STAYS here. At least until it SAYS something even if it isn't the word visible. . Now that would be impressive, a graph that speaks.

 

It looks like a picture of a kitten. Didn't that garage "gunsmith" from that old site used to posts pictures of cats?

Maybe we have been hacked. Just sayin

 

The chart was there for at least a little while and I looked at it...... When next I looked I saw the photo.... Larry

 

Joe, why not take that first post down quick! The suggestion that you (or I?) (or photobucket?) might have been hacked should worry everyone, including me.

N1H1

 

Perhaps Joe, N1H1,Flyers or WPT have information on a question this thread has popped into my head.
Only been shooting trap for 6 years..... reloaded all my life (over 70 years) and know that different projectiles not only fly differently but have different effects on barrels and barrel life.
Watching the various forums in reference to reloading and shot the advice and suggestions on shot and barrels (even powder) are varied and cause great consternation and "discussion".
Never use reclaimed..............
Reclaimed never hurt anything..........
Hard shot reduces barrel wear.................
Soft shot is the only way to enhance barrel life..............
You have heard and read them all.
I have 3 old guns....... 1100 Trap from 1st year of production.... Hi Standard Supermatic Trap from the 50's, a 101 Diamond Grade from the 1st couple years of manufacture and all have had tons of various shot run through the barrel...... The Diamond Grade unsingle had thousands and thousands of shells loaded with reclaimed through it before I ended up as owner.... barrel is still flawless.
I have one I bought new....... 1100 Comp Synthetic with about 50,000 rounds through it...... probably 40% new and 60% reclaimed.
Question....... several manufacturers indicate...... "using alloy equivalent to......". Just what, gentlemen, are we about to be pushing down the barrels?
At this point I have no barrels that show any indication of issues..... am I just about to destroy them?
Probably the wrong forum but a place to start......... Larry

 

Flyersarebest, post 11:

"Nothing odd about this site."

Of course there's something odd about this site, Flyersarebest . It mixes up the names of posters.

In post 6 it was rookieshooter who asked

"Where is the '' Graph Master'' when you really need him?"

But in post 11 it was you who wrote

"BTW, me asking for something from the mastergrapher is just sarcasm. I for one couldn't care less if you ever posted anything."

But it wasn't Flyersarebest who asked for something from the Graph Master, it was rookieshooter. This site makes it look as if you use two names here, which seems odd to me.

NiH1

 

I only use one name. I was a rookie back in 1971. Before the targets were made easier. I was a rookie when in 1976 I registered my first targets. I was a rookie at the GRAND AMERICAN in VANDALIA in 1977 when I broke a 97 on pre lim Thursday when a 97, lone 98 was high, paid enough to cover the week and pay for a new TM1.

I wasn't a rookie when you helped soften the targets and the ata moved away from a few THOUSAND shooters that would drive in for the GAH.
I use the 25 straight Flyers pin because I decided that was a better way of spending my hard earned paycheck.

I lot of things on our site might seem "odd" to you. Kool-Aid could be the problem.

Remember, "Neil"

I didn't leave the ata, THE ATA LEFT ME.
And from the numbers they have been able to attract to that place in IL., it left a few thousand others also.

 

Larry,
I would not be the one to answer any of the questions you asked, I reloaded the first two years after I started shooting and have shot new shells ever since ... I limit my time at the pattern board to point of aim and point of impact, patterns are misleading because there are no two shotgun shells that will pattern exactly (like snow flakes) alike any way so why bother ..? The pattern board shows a static pattern, in reality the pattern is multi dimensional and changes constantly so an inch or foot closer or farther away it would not be the same as that particular (exact) point ... I let the manufacturer worry about how hard or soft the shot is and to date I have not worn out any barrel on any gun I have shot or owned ... I know people who pattern, count all the holes and spot the holes in the pattern (my father was one of them ) ... I asked him if he found a hole in the pattern what was he going to do differently with the next shot which probably won't have a hole in the same place or at all for that matter ... His response was always just leave me alone and don't worry about it ... I never worried about it in the first place so he didn't have to tell me that ... Don't sweat the small (technical ) stuff, see the target, break the target (or miss it) and move on ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

WPT, Agreed......... when first attempting trap I played with chokes.....powders.........shot sizes....... wads....... everything I read about and finally figured out POA and POI were probably more important than anything as per "choke for smoke"....... later on I decided as a very slow shooter having a 90/10 or 80/20 POI simply meant I was probably sending about 50% of my pattern where there were no birds...... changed the pattern to reflect my timing and range of shooting and improved my scores....
My real question now is what (if anything) are these new shot alloys doing to barrels? Different metals will certainly have different reactions under heat and pressure......... Larry

 

My real question now is what (if anything) are these new shot alloys doing to barrels? Different metals will certainly have different reactions under heat and pressure......... Larry

Larry,
I would say that is a damn good question but again it is not something I could give you an honest answer on ... I am going to fire off a question to Federal and see what they say if anything, new alloys gives a pretty broad spectrum ... Have to see what they say, might be interesting ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

I have no heard back from Federal yet but did copy this off of the Web site :
SHOTSHELL BREAKDOWN
How It's Made: 12-Gauge Plastic Target Shotshell

• 
  
  
  • Learn more about our products

TYPES OF SHOTSHELL AMMUNITION
Federal loads six different gauges of shotshells: 10, 12, 16, 20, 28 and 410. Their lengths and shot charges vary from the 21⁄2 inch–1⁄2 oz. 410 to the 31⁄2 inch–21⁄4 oz. 10 gauge. They are loaded with lead, steel and HEAVYWEIGHT® shot, as well as slugs and buckshot.

Lead Shot: Pellets and buckshot are formed by pouring melted lead through a sieve or swaged (formed in a die). Traditional wads for
lead shot are molded from flexible, low-density polyethylene plastic and have a cushion section on the bottom. The cushion helps
reduce the number of deformed pellets and recoil.

Steel Shot: Made by cutting steel wire into short lengths which are formed and ground. Premium shot is coated with a rust inhibitor. Wads for steel shot are molded from high-density polyethylene. They have thick sidewalls to prevent the pellets from contacting the shotgun bore surface. Steel shot ammunition requires large charges of special slow-burning powders to give the large shot column a gentler start but a faster exit from the bore.

FLITESTOPPER® Shot: Available in all-steel pellets for waterfowl and upland birds, and nickel-plated lead pellets for upland birds. Features a ring to cut on impact and better edge to edge patterns.

HEAVYWEIGHT® Shot: Pellets are made of tungsten-alloy. The FLITECONTROL® wad protects the bore from hard pellets. Heavyweight shot is 35% denser than lead. This shot can be used in a steel safe barrel.

Sabot style slugs: Feature a lead or copper bullet enclosed in a polyethylene sleeve that grips the rifling to provide spin and increased accuracy. For rifled barrels only.

Rifled or "Foster" slugs: Have helix ribbing to enhance stability through the bore. It has a hollow point that is designed for maximum expansion. The rifled slug is recommended for smooth bore shotgun barrels.

There are similarities and differences in the component parts and construction of a shotshell. The head and primer are similar in all shells. The tube and base wad are either paper or plastic. The shot wad design and powder vary with the type of shotshell. Some of these loads have a granulated plastic buffer which prevents pellet deformation and produces tight, uniform patterns.


They do not give specifics other than what you can read off of that information ... I asked them specifically what is this new alloy, see what they say ...
Waiting Patiently .... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

More from Federals site :

First Look: Federal Grand Gold Medal Clay Competition Shotshells
A new competition shotshell from Federal is designed to hit clays harder while remaining soft on shooters
The Federal Grand Gold Medal competition shotgun loads produce less felt recoil, more reliable ignition, improved shot hardness and excellent reloadability. (Photo courtesy of Federal)
By: OutdoorChannel.com Staff

Competitive shooters have relied on Federal Gold Medal shotshells for decades in trap, skeet and sporting clay events worldwide.

For 2017, the time-tested design has been refined to create a new load called Gold Medal Grand. The lineup of reloadable plastic shotshells produces less felt recoil, more reliable ignition, improved shot hardness and excellent reloadability, all while retaining performance shooters expect from Federal Premium Ammunition.

More Power, Less Pain?

Federal Grand Gold Medal competition shotgun
loads are equipped with SoftCell technology, a
two-piece wad with a cushioned air
chamber. (Photo courtesy of Federal)
Repetitive recoil is the bane of shotgunners’ shoulders, capable of inflicting serious punishment and inciting flinches in shooters of all shapes and sizes.

New Gold Medal Grand tames the kick of all shotgun styles with an ingenious two-piece wad armed with SoftCell technology.

“The two-piece design allows us to create an air pocket within the wad, which basically serves as a cushioning chamber,” explains Dan Compton, senior ammunition product line specialist for Federal Premium. “This not only absorbs energy, it delays the entire compression process, so the force hits your shoulder a little later and little softer.”

Compton notes the SoftCell system is based on a proven concept. “In the past, a version of this type of wad was used in some of Federal’s shotshells,” he says. “New molding and polymer technology allowed us to bring it back – better than ever – with Gold Medal Grand.”

Realizing a number of factors can influence felt recoil, Federal Premium engineers bolted shotguns onto rigid test fixtures and used minute electrical impulses to precisely measure the recoil force generated by new Gold Medal Grand and a number of traditional shotshells.

The results were compelling. “Gold Medal Grand produced from 11 to 17 percent less peak force than the competitive brands we tested,” says Compton. “It also had roughly 5 percent less recoil than current Gold Medal shotshells, and generated a much narrower, more consistent range of force.”

Such recoil reductions are a godsend to avid shooters who count the number of rounds they send downrange by the box or case.

“If you only fire a couple of shots at a time, this might not seem like a big deal,” says Compton. “But when you’re shooting hundreds or even thousands of rounds at a multiday event, even a 5-percent decrease in recoil is going to be very noticeable.”


Federal Grand Gold Medal competition shotgun loads feature white hulls and quality printing for premium appearance. (Photo courtesy of Federal)

Compton notes Gold Medal Grand’s unique two-stage wad also produces tighter, more uniform patterns than one-piece designs. “The cushioning effect of the wad allows us to use faster-burning propellants that reduce the muzzle pressure that can throw off patterns.” he explains.

“To further ensure tight, even patterns, Gold Medal Grand’s lead shot is engineered for an optimum blend of hardness and density. “We use a special lead alloy that provides the hardness of 5-percent antimony lead,” says Compton.

“Harder pellets don’t deform as much and produce more consistent patterns. Testing conducted by Federal Premium engineers revealed that significantly more pellets from Gold Medal Grand loads hit inside a 30-inch circle at 40 yards compared to standard Gold Medal. The average increase in pattern efficiency was nearly 5 percent”

Increasing hardness also means more downrange energy. “Hard shot breaks clay targets better than soft shot,” Compton adds.

Reliable Performance
Thanks to its rigid, PrimerLock head, Gold Medal Grand is also less prone to misfires caused by variability in firearm firing mechanisms and subtle differences in primer loading.

“The PrimerLock head is made of brass-plated steel, which transmits energy from the firing pin to the primer better than traditional solid brass heads,” says Compton. “As a result, less force is required to ignite the primer. There is also more room for error if the firing pin lands off to the side.”

Indeed, standard SAAMI-approved drop-test procedures showed new Gold Medal Grand outperformed standard Gold Medal and competitor ammunition in zero-offset and .025-inch offset impacts on the primer cup.

“You basically drop a heavy ball bearing onto a primer head from gradually lower heights until the rounds stop firing. This is called the ‘all fire height,’” says Compton. “In zero-offset testing, current Gold Medal fired at drop heights down to 11 inches; Gold Medal Grand fired at down to just 9 inches, which was better than all the competitive ammo tested.”

When the bearing’s impact was shifted .025 inches off center, Gold Medal Grand fired at 14 inches, well above original Gold Medal and the rest of the competition. This testing conducted at Federal Premium facility in Anoka, Minnesota.

In a nod to shooters who reload their shotshells, Gold Medal Grand also features an integral basewad for improved durability.

“This means the wad’s plastic tube and base are formed from one piece,” says Compton. “This design maximizes reloadability over standard inserted base wads.

“Testing conducted at Federal Premium’s facility showed you can reload Gold Medal Grand hulls an average of 16 to 17 times, which is better than regular Gold Medal and competitive brands we tested,” he added. “Individual results for Gold Medal Grand ran as high as 25 reloads with no deformities, which is truly remarkable given that most shooters don’t reload a shotshell more than 10 times.”

In addition to these enhancements, Gold Medal Grand features the same great components as original Gold Medal rounds, including high-powered Federal 209A primer and specially formulated propellant.

It also sports a distinctive white hull and is available in shot sizes 7.5 and 8 for 12-gauge shotguns in 2¾-inch shell lengths. Shooters can choose from a variety of popular dram and payload configurations with velocities ranging from 1,100 to 1,235 feet per second.

Features and Benefits

• Two-piece wad utilizes SoftCell technology to decrease perceived recoil and produce more uniform patterns than one-piece designs
• Rigid PrimerLock head improves primer sensitivity, ensuring proper ignition in the event of a light hit
• Lead shot is engineered for the optimum blend of hardness and density for even patterns and maximum downrange power
• Integral base wad maximizes reloadability

Configurations

• 12 gauge, 2 3/4 inch, 2 3/4 dram eq., 1 1/8 oz., 1100 fps, 7.5 shot Extra-Lite
• 12 gauge, 2 3/4 inch, 2 3/4 dram eq., 1 1/8 oz., 1100 fps, 8 shot Extra-Lite
• 12 gauge, 2 3/4 inch, 2 3/4 dram eq., 1 oz., 1180 fps, 7.5 shot
• 12 gauge, 2 3/4 inch, 2 3/4 dram eq., 1 oz., 1180 fps, 8 shot
• 12 gauge, 2 3/4 inch, 2 3/4 dram eq., 1 1/8 oz., 1145 fps, 7.5
• 12 gauge, 2 3/4 inch, 2 3/4 dram eq., 1 1/8 oz., 1145 fps, 8
• 12 gauge, 2 3/4 inch, 3 dram eq., 1 1/8 oz., 1200 fps, 7.5 shot
• 12 gauge, 2 3/4 inch, 3 dram eq., 1 1/8 oz., 1200 fps, 8 shot
• 12 gauge, 2 3/4 inch, HDCP, 1 1/8 oz., 1245 fps, 7.5 shot
• 12 gauge, 2 3/4 inch, HDCP, 1 1/8 oz., 1245 fps, 8 shot

Share This Story

 

I broke a 91 from 27 yards on Sunday shot my reloads on the first 50 a 22 20.
Went to two boxes of the Federal Grand Hanicap 8's for the last 50. I missed the 52 nd. Target then ran 49.

The handicap 8 hit them really hard, I shot them good last year too.

 

Back in the 70s, when Extra Hard Shot was being heavily advertised, a Remington Rep. told me how shot was made.
Antimony is added to the mix and according to him a fair amount is lost in the pouring process due to outgassing.
They poured half the mix and then re-alloyed the remainder before they poured the remaining amount.
According to him, this gave the shot a fairly close consistency.

However, that was many years ago and processes may have changed.
I'm sure the EPA has something to say about as well

Regards.....Gerald

 

That was when Remington Reps were actually employees of Remington and knew about Remington and the game.

 

Here is my take on the Federal Grand, FWIW. I think they shoot fine in my limited experience of 12 boxes at special introductory pricing. However, I do not think I will be buying them at STS/AA equivalent pricing. My personal view is the price should be in the area of splitting the difference between Top Gun and STS/AA shells.

My view about recoil is there are two ways to lessen actual recoil. One method is lighten the payload. The other method is lessen the velocity of the payload. I have to wonder how Federal has accomplished this Newton’s law defying miracle since the boxes state the payload weight and velocity

 

I fired off an E Mail to Federal 2 days ago, got no reply so I called them ... Customer service Rep says was not sure what the new alloy is to increase hardness but does know it will not damage shotgun barrels ... I jokingly asked if maybe they added some Viagra to make the shot harder and he said he was not sure (?) so he didn't want to say anything that could turn out to not be the truth ... I was told it will take a few days for them to respond to the E Mail I sent them, so for now all we know for sure is the Customer Service Rep does not have a sense of humor or don't know what Viagra is ... Still waiting ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

I find it interesting a Rep that knows nothing about the content of "lead" could say it will not damage a shotgun barrel. I suppose it really is a non issue but steel shot and some other products harder than lead require special wads to perform well and not damage the gun.......
Thanks for your efforts WPT.......... perhaps we can learn something. Perhaps there is an alloy that folks than afford when they make their own shot?? MG1Polo might find it useful information.............. Larry

 

“We use a "special lead alloy" that provides the hardness of 5-percent antimony lead,” says Compton.(Federal Rep )...

I read the above article again and found this statement by the Federal Rep ... Special lead alloy ? WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

WPT.

Good luck trying to get info. from these Co's
Most of the people that work for these Co's. don't know Jack.......

It's amazing how many people you talk to that know little or nothing about who they work for.
Sad.

Regards.....Gerald

 

So, I scoured Federals sites, they commonly refer to the shot in the Gold Medal Grand as a special lead alloy that provides 5% antimony for harder shot ... I do not know enough about metals to be able to sort out the differences between lead shot and a "special lead alloy" or what it might be ... I do feel Federal has a reputation to live up to and doubt seriously they would use any additive that would or could do damage to the barrels on a shot gun ... I am going to get some Handicap version of 7 1/2's and 8's and see if there is a noticeable difference (key word: Noticeable ) in recoil and the way the targets break as compared to the Nitro' 27's I normally shoot ... In the mean time the folks from Federal may find time to respond to my e mails or not ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Still no response from Federal, they must be busy at shoots ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

I suspect than they go by "no need for information, they buy anyway"........ I get concerned when answers to simple questions are avoided. Larry

 

Maybe this is a deep dark secret and they don't even their employees to know therefore no answer forthcoming

 

Somehow I think you are not serious. They were not in Tucson. I only saw them in San Antonio and Illinois last year. The only reason they were there in San Antonio is Devon Harris had a whole squad tossing white hulls on the ground.

Remington and Winchester were not in San Antonio last year for the first time. Pretty sad reflection on the ammo companies current feeling about supporting trap with humans on the grounds beyond Sparta.