Free shells?

Is there a list of shooters who receive monatary compensation whether shells or guns while competing among the rank and file amatures? If not, i think this should be public knowledge. May determine if i play certain options.

 

In theory that's probably not a bad idea, rookie. But there is are two better ways to avoid being skinned.

1a. Invest in an ATA average book, probably available soon. Now that T&F are ATA property, I'm sure you can find your way to one in their website.

1b. Copy the first page of singles averages. Look it over before you enter. Do not play the singles options in anyone on that page is there,

1c. Copy the first page of handicap averages. Look it over before you enter. Do not play the handicap options in anyone on that page is there,

1d. Copy the first page of doubles averages. Look it over before you enter. Do not play the doubles options in anyone on that page is there,

2. Don't play any options. If you really are a rookieshooter, you are just meat for the grinder, a lamb for the shearing.

Kay Ohye used to say "If you can't break 95 or better pretty-much anytime at handicap, don't play the options."

Kay speaks from experience. I'd say 90, but he's the expert and I'm just a fiscal conservative who doesn't much like to bet on a losing hand.

N1H1

 

Professional shooters should definitely have to declare.

This sport desperately needs a professional class. Of course, nobody is going to watch a sport where you need a shootoff to decide the match after seeing the event participants run 300/300.

 

For Heaven's sake, smoking 357! You have classes & yardage groups to distance yourself from all the really accomplished ATA shooters now. Rookieshooter is not going to torn apart just by "professional shooters;" the non-professionals outnumber the others by 1000 to one. Anyone who shoots at all well will decimate him.

If you are in AA or AAA and on the 27, you may meet these men- and lady-professionals in options. Otherwise, they might as well not be there unless you play "Jackpots" or some-such foolishness.

They are the best. Are you among the best? If not, you have no business betting against them and if you do, you are a fool. And when you lose, you have no one to blame but yourself.

N1H1

 

Did you understand anything I wrote, or did you just have that canned response ready to go for the next comment to come along, whatever it might have said?

Be aware that my vision for this sport doesn't include the participants betting on the outcome. I don't see that as how to build a sport or develop amateurs.

 

I understood exactly what you wrote, smoking375.

1. You seem to think that "people" are going to watch singles shoot-offs if they are not trapshooters and personally involved in some way in the outcome. They won't. TV has tried everything and no one, generally speaking, cares. Trapshooting is a participant sport, not a spectator one. And what possible difference could it make if people watch or not?

2. You act as if 300x300 were common and that's what's driving spectators away. Has that happened in Ohio often recently? Can you cite examples?

Neil

 

We can certainly do better than this defeatist attitude. I imagine all sorts of ways to make the sport more appealing to a television audience. Hell, they air shows of guys sitting around a table playing cards. Cards. We can't beat that? We can't beat a card game?

 

Let's roll this thread back, smoking 357.

1a. Rookieshooter wanted a list of sponsored shooters, so "he might determine if he should play certain options."

1b. I explained to him that it's not the question of whether a shooter is sponsored that will determine his luck at playing options; it's the skill of the shooters he plans to bet against compared to his own skill. The ATA provides a complete and trustworthy guide which allows him to make an accurate estimation of the skill of various shooters he might bet against. It's the average book, and I told him how to use it. "If there are better shooters than you in the event, don't bet against them." Do you argue with that advice, smoking357, over the long run?

2a.You said that professionals would have to "declare."
You then claimed that people don't watch shoot-off with 300x300's.

2b. I pointed out shoot-offs do not even attract many trapshooters unless they have a reason to watch and whether they watch of not is beside the point for most participants in the sport.

3a. You called this "defeatist." And said you can "imagine all sorts of ways to make the sport more appealing to a television audience."

3.b I think you had better get to work on it and I do sincerely with you luck.

But that does not change a word of my good advice to rookieshooter. Somehow he's come to believe that he will just be beaten by sponsored shooters, In fact, he will be beaten, in the long run, by everyone who is a better shooter than he is. His road to success is not worrying about sponsored shooters; it's learning to shoot as well as well as the members listed on the front pages of the average book. Once he's there, then playing the options might be worth a second look. Until then, he will surely run out of money long before he runs out of people who will beat him.

N1H1

 

The topic of PRO sponsored trap shooter and free shells is something that I know a little about. In 1978 after I won my first Grand American Clay Target Championship Federal Told me they would give me 5 cases of any shell I wanted (my first FREE shells) so I asked for 5 cases of Federal Premium hunting loads, they thought I would take trap shells and balked at first but then did give them to me.

Then sometime in about 1980 or 81 Remington approached me and asked if I would like to shoot there shells and gave me some blue magics, I shot these for a year very well at singles but really bad at caps so I quit the deal as FREE shells weren't worth it. Back then you could win a goodly sum in handicap and I felt the Remington's hurt my shooting.

In 1982 my Model 12 went down and Bill Poole approached me with a deal that Beretta would consign me a gun to use if I'd like so I tried it I did and liked it. In late 1983 I started talks with Beretta and went to work for them in January 84. For two years 1984 and 85 I shot as an industrial representative (back then they had an industry category that you had to declare as, some industry people did some didn't) In fact I was Capt of the Industry All American team those years but I really didn't like it as I wanted to shoot for the money. Beretta paid for all my shooting and shells and I shot Federal then but won no coins.

In 1985 I made a deal with Beretta that I would pay for all my own shooting, shells, entree fees, travel ect if they paid me a yearly amount to shoot there stuff, they bought this idea and I did this for them until 1999.

The best thing I learned when I was working full time at Beretta is how the gun industry worked and the people in it. Having worked with Federal I approached them and got my first real good shell deal. I liked the Federal Reps and they treated me well, of course that's a two way street as I was winning shoots all over the country show casing there ammo.

Sandy Woods worked for Winchester and was always trying to get me to shoot there shells and I told him if Federal and me ended for some reason I'd be happy to but as for then I would stay with Federal because they had treated me well and it wouldn't be fair to them to dump them now, well all that changed when the powers to be at Federal fired several of my friends at Federal so I figured they treat there people that way screw em and I took Sandy's offer.

I shot my FREE Winchesters' until 1995 when after Sandy left they decided to end there shell programs and after that I never received another free shell. The cost of the shells were nice but small potatoes in the scheme of things in Trap Shooting. The free shells didn't make me a PRO shooting for money made me a pro. The idea of Amateur Trap Shooting is a myth anyhow because any shooter can play the money if they want. Frank Little used to say the only thing Amateur about the ATA is the people running it.

Speaking of Frank two of the best shoot offs I ever had were with him at the Grand in 1987 and 1989. Both years it got down to him and me for the Clay Target (16 yards) and both years we had the grand stands packed to watch us shoot singles. In fact back in the day every year the grand stands were packed to watch the Clay Target Shoot offs. So saying Trap Shooting can't be a watching sport hasn't always been true. Historybuff can fill us in on that old days and crowds I'm sure.

Brad Dysinger

 

Thanks Brad. I watched one of your shoot offs with Frank at the Grand. I also was at Thurmont, Md when Frank and Ohey slugged it out with 500 extra 16yd shoot off clays. That was a record setting shoot off.