WSRC Electric Utility Bills $140,000 Sept 2017

Put it on their tab, pass the hat around and get the members to kick in an extra $20 or so ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Well the state gets part of the camping fees, $20-25 a night I think. That totals $280,000 - $350,000 if all the campsites are booked. Plus IDNR fees. So what's the big deal. That's only $10 a day per camping spot to cover electric and water costs. How much was the electric bill at cc for sctp nationals? Let's compare.

 

John Doe.......so then tell us why the state cant keep up with the bills.

 

Some yeas ago (2011) the ATA agreed to lease the entire campground (less the few sites under lease with the IDNR) and make full payments each year, on or before August 1st. This lease is in effect to the year 2026.

According to ATA Financial Statements:

In 2015, the agreement stipulated the ATA pay the IDNR a minimum of $198,774 for the 15-day period during the GAH. The Financial Statement said they paid $209,218. The ATA reported a campground revenue of $252,084.

In 2016, the ATA was to pay a minimum of $316,602 to the IDNR, but their actual reported expense was $323,239. They reported revenues of $396,386.

The campground agreement has been a huge success for the ATA each year. The 2016 revenues show a profit of $76,147, all from those members who leased a site for 15 days. There are 10001 campsites. The agreement provides at no cost, 20 sites for the IDNR and 25 sites for the ATA. That leaves 956 sites available for lease. Dividing this number into the $76,147 profit (revenues less expenses), the average profit on each site is $76.51 or $5.10 per day (using 15-days).

WSRC Expenses

When taking into account all monthly expenses as well as occasional repairs, it is very easy to understand why the World Shooting and Recreational Complex will never be profitable under governmental control.

Electric expense is approximately $20,000 / month and $90,000 - $100,000 during August.
Water & Sewerage expense is approximately $4,700 monthly and $11,000 during August.

Here are some more recent expenses (2017):

In January the IDNR paid $8,383 for 9 new Defib. AED's.

In March 2017, repairs to the WSRC Bobcat Bull Hog cost $7,000. The original invoice sent to the IDNR was for $19,999.99.

Plumbing repairs made in May was at the tune of $12,680. More repairs were made in July at a cost of $12,167.

Roadway repairs were made in June to the sum of $9,943.

​

The expense of lawn care at the WSRC is astronomical. May's turf-care, weed & fertilizer and mowing invoice was $11,811 a special 11-day of lawn care project during the end of May though June 6 was $11,484, and June's bill was only $8,053. Add to that $19,701 in mulching and mowing at the WSRC during the same month (July 2017).

​

The IDNR paid $7,274 each month (May-July) for janitorial services.

$8,545 was spent to check, clean and repair air-conditioners from June 27 - July 31.

$9,861 was the amount paid to DRL Sales, Inc. for a Facility Manager, Assistant #1 and Assistant #2 during the month of July. $700 of this total was the rental fee for a Kawasaki Mule. This half-year contract totals $53,636.

​

$4,437.06 was paid out in repairs to the metal-halide parking lot lighting during the GAH.

$15,600 for several types of targets for the pistol range (pepper poppers, whirligigs, IPSC Flag and Hostage Targets, etc) were purchased in August.

WSRC officials sure know how to spend money the State does not have. One would think they might look for cost-cutting solutions. Hopefully, these examples will be helpful to those interested.

Note: A big "Thank You" to those who go to the trouble to obtain documentation for those of us who desire to know the facts.

If I've misstated anything I would appreciate being corrected. I want to be factual. My integrity depends on it.

HB

 

Jack Fishburn pays his Bills at the CC, Promptly

GB.................................DLS

 

Well you must not be from Illinois or be a state employee. They never pay on time for any department. Don't single out the shooting complex.

 

HB,
You have missed all the other revenue that the site brings in. File some more FOIA's and get all of it. I would like to know all of the expenses vs revenue this year and see where it sits from previous years. I guarantee it's closer this year than previous years. While your at it find out what CC's expenses vs revenue are. It's just the same old Sparta bashing every time. It's a recreational complex not just trap range and it's also a state park. There is not a state park in this country that makes a profit.

 

John Doe - - - Please tell us and show us any paperwork you have to support any of your claims. I would also like to know what FOIA requests you are making. How many in the past?

I am most interested in you claim that there is not a state park in this country that does not make a profit. Please quote your source.
_____________________________

John Doe.....as you are too lazy to do any research, here is some information / research done by the Illinois Policy Center.

The Problem
The World Shooting and Recreation Complex (WSRC) in Sparta, Illinois was completed in 2006 at a construction cost of $31.5 million (as well as another $18 million for road, water, and sewer improvement). The 1,600-acre facility includes 746 RV campsites, 120 trap shooting fields, and a 34,000 square foot events center.

The state-funded facility came fully loaded with high expectations. In August 2004, State Representative Dan Reitz said the World Shooting and Recreation Complex “will be the only state park in the state of Illinois that makes money.” In June 2005, the director of the Illinois Department of Natural Resources (IDNR), estimated the complex would bring the state about $50 million to $100 million in economic development each year, once up and running.

Has the Complex lived up to its hype? Not exactly. In fact, the Complex’s total projected revenue collection from fiscal year 2004 through fiscal year 2011 falls short of the total amount the state appropriated to the Complex by more than $1.5 million. The table below features the state expenditures for the Complex’s operation and maintenance as well as its imprest account, which is used to handle minor disbursements, such as awards for competitions. The categories of revenue for the complex include the WSRC Event Center/Mall/Tent etc., event income, concessions, camping related, sponsorship/advertising, shooting disciplines (individuals), shooting disciplines (groups), and gift certificates.

The expected benefit of increased economic activity has also not come to fruition. After the World Shooting and Recreation Complex opened in the summer of 2006, the raw sales tax data from the City of Sparta shows a slight decline in sales tax receipts in following years. When the tax receipts are adjusted for inflation, the decline becomes more dramatic, dropping below 2002 levels.

Our Solution
Projects such as the Sparta World Shooting and Recreation Complex are often touted for their potential to stimulate economic development, but they are rarely analyzed to see whether or not they have lived up to their boosters’ high expectations. The Sparta World Shooting and Recreation Complex should be taken off of the state dole, and similar projects should be avoided in the future.

Why This Works
State and local government should focus on delivering core services, especially in difficult economic times. Rather than attempting to spur economic development with complex and costly projects, the state government should focus on improving the business climate via tax and regulatory reform. By decreasing the cost of doing business in Illinois, the state can attract entrepreneurs and businesses that will drive sustainable job creation and economic growth.
_______

Convincing the average taxpayer to pay for the entertainment of trapshooters driving $400K motorhomes is difficult in a bankrupt anti gun state. Good luck with that.

 

So what should we do then? Close the site? Move the grand? Fire all the employees? What makes you happy and the rest of the people on here who hate Sparta and the WSRC? Smithy, your no longer a tax payer here so why should it bother you. I live locally. I see the impact it has for this area. It's been a boost to the economy in my business for sure and several of my fellow business owner friends. I've been to vandalia while the grounds are Sparta don't have that rustic feel, they are the home grounds now. I enjoy shooting there and so do a lot of other members.

 

I didn't write the article. That was done by the taxpayers.

Well gee, that's what it is all about right? Hey guys, ruining the sport has been good for this fellow John Doe.

You would say a lot enjoy shooting there. Compared to what? And who? You, Bradford, and the Pull 2012 gang?

John - - -enjoy your personal financial gain with the WSRC. The members voted on paper and with their feet. Why act so surprised?

 

You still didn't answer the question. What would you do? What is your solution to the how bad the grand is and what to do with Sparta.

 

The WSRC has lost money for the State of Illinois and added to the States deficit every year it has been in existence, the losses total over 25 Million ... The ATA has made money so as long as the State is dumb enough to keep the WSRC in existence the ATA will take advantage of that even with additional cost ... The attendance of or at the grand would be increased greatly if it were hosted at any one of the several clubs that have facility's to accommodate it ... The ATA would probably not make as much money because they would not be able to juice the shooters like they do now ...
I honestly do not know of anyone who hates or is a Sparta basher( maybe a few who have been there ) but for the most part peoples (members) concerns are for the future of the ATA, not the WSRC or Sparta for that matter ... It took over 11 years to get over 2000 entry's in the Biggest Championship event ( the grand American handicap) in the world at the WSRC, that in and of itself is nothing short of "PATHETIC" .... The WSRC is typically a dead horse and it is only a matter of time until the State of Illinois dismantles it so the locals can have their Demolition Derby's on that site ... The ATA's problem is none of the clubs capable of hosting the grand American Championships want to be micro managed by a bunch of self serving officials and their suck ups to be catered to ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Bradford and the ATA corrupt hid the fact that the HOF building was actually owned by the State of Illinois. They did this so the ATA would have to die along with the WSRC.

I don't care what happens to the ATA. In my opinion the rats at the top are feeding on what little is left. The sport will survive.

 

John Doe

Being that you make money on the WSRC being close, I understand your position.

What type business do you have?

 

I would rather not elaborate on my businesses for fear of reprisals but they are in the service industry.

 

Can we guess ..? The winner gets a prize ...

Picking fly shit out of Pepper with Boxing gloves on ..? WPT ... (YAC) ...

How many guess's do we get ..?

 

John Doe, Do you by any chance run a shot recovery business? Maybe sell guns on the side. Roger C.

 

No Roger. I'm born and raised locally. My businesses have nothing to do with shooting.

 

john doe, So you live in Ill. and think it is ok for the state to loose millions on the shooting facility. Roger C.

 

Well Roger if you would take in to count the economic impact the facility has then I'm ok with it. The state is losing millions other places that it shouldn't be. WSRC has the potential to be a great asset to the state and from my point of view/ opinion I see it getting better. The sporting clays course and berm are being used more now than I ve seen before and lots of new non shorting events too. I'm sorry if nobody agrees with me. This is my home grounds.

 

It makes so much money the Govna vetoed money to fix the road. And the IDNR says fixed the place yourself. Oh...did anyone notice the state chased the SCTP out when they shuttered the place.

Great home grounds if that is your home or if you are one of the leaches making a living off the location.

 

Sure. I'm a leach now. Thats real classy Live Oak.

 

John Doe - you want the WSRC regardless of how bad it is for trapshooting. You want it regardless of what it has done to the sport. You want it because you are feeding off it. It is good for you but bad for the organization and the sport. It is good for the leaches.

A leach is a parasite

parasite : a person who habitually relies on or exploits others and gives nothing in return.

John, it is folks like you, Pull 2012 and their defenders, the EC, HOF directors, and others that have sucked the life out of the sport.

 

The Facility (WSRC) generates 20/30 million dollars in and about the region and local economy, this statement was made by one of those involved with the inner workings of the ATA who owns a lead reclaiming business, is a gun retailer, and act (ACTS) as the Executive Director of the ATA ... He did not get the nickname "Talking Head " by coming up with these figures all on his own so he and they must be accurate even though the State said at one time that the collected Taxes were down considerably when compared to years past ... The Politicos say," Hey a few million here, a few million there whats the difference, just raise the Taxes again" ... The State of Illinois and ATA brass hats initially wanted to make sure they had enough trap fields so there is some other strip mined land available for once the place catches on for expansion ... WPT ... (YAC) ....

 

Don't blame John Doe for moving the ATA to Illinois.

 

Some possible imagination could bring in revenue to that place.

I guess I would start out with some recreational facility for families, not just shooting families, but families with all sorts of interests.

How about the State putting in a Water Park to go along with their RV Park ?

OR. start a KOA, or Good Sam's Club ?

Instead of letting the place go to hell, the State could possibly sub lease it to someone with imagination to bring a much needed improvement to the facility.

Think of the place being used for 26 or more weeks out of the year for Family Recreation...Even the Trapshooting Hall of Fame Museum could be open to visitors with their families for more than a couple weeks per year. Great exposure for the sport could be had by this.

Jack Fishburn came along and put up a great place for not just shooters but families to enjoy while camping. Too bad some of the business folks can't see the potential, and come up with a workable plan with the state.

Just my 2 cents.

I am way too old to spearhead anything like this, but there has to be someone out there who could, NOT necessarily a shooter either.

 

John, You must understand the ATA ran a pole, and was told by the members not to go to Ill. , not just to Sparta. They made the move anyway, why, no one knows but them. The beef is more about the EC thinking they knew more than the members, and it is now biting them on the arse. This is just one of many moves they have made that has diminished the sport. We have an EC that thinks they are infallable. They have morphed the sport into a politically correct entity, where the top few win most of the championships, and the rest shoot for ribbons. The money has been moved to the top, with the hi-gun option. If the payoff reads 40-30-20-10, and ends with hi gun. The top scores take all of the option money the shooters are not crazy about this set up. With millions in the bank, the EC decided not to add any money to the Grand payoffs. That is membership money not theirs. Sparta is not the only thing that has many shooters upset. They seem to be using the ATA finances as a personal piggy bank. Try and gat a listing of how the money is being handle and you will see a lot of hidden payouts. Roger C.

 

Too bad the ex-ED, Dr. Frank Rively, is not willing to comment. Seems a few buried bodies were being uncovered much to the dismay of the ATA's biggies. So long Frank said they!

 

no matter what you bring for amusement it is still in the middle of nowhere without any accommodations someone would have to spend millions to build the minimum facilities to attract people for vacation/amusement and would still be in the middle of nowhere. I would not invest in something like this, would you?

 

oldphart, Anyone with even a little knowledge of investments must agree with you. Not much can be done to make the Sparta location a family spot. The restaurant situation is on a down hill slide. Carmichels was the only upscale place to eat in the town and it closed years ago. Three avg. places were all sold and are now down graded to fair. The services are just not there. Roger C.

 

But, but, it was promised over 10 years ago but nothing ever happened. Wishful thinking continues.

 

Where else can you put a place that big? You can't build anything like that in a city. What amusement things would put in? Everyone runs the WSRC down but has no real helpful things to add. And most have never been there but are all experts!

 

T Shot,
Go back and READ SLOWLY what was said, nothing was said by anyone who was running the WSRC down, it's family functions that are lacking in the area / region which creates a hostile situation for the FAMILY , while someone is shooting and enjoying themselves ... There never was a need for 3 1/2 mile trap line and in over 11 /12 years that has been proved time and time again ... I never claimed to be an expert of Sparta, but I was actually there with a friend on mine who's family were born, raised, and probably still live there ... His sister was a nurse at the hospital, his Brother in Law worked for Peabody coal, his brother was a Cop, in Sparta or a town very close by ... Sparta seemed to be rural America in its finest hour, but not the place to put what was once the Biggest trap shooting events in the World unless you got chit for brain and or getting greased which is not an uncommon practice in the State of Illinois ... Go enjoy yourself, have fun, soak up some sun and suds with some of your Buds ... Those that said they will not be going to Sparta, (Illinois) or support a State that is highly opposed to guns are being true to their word, you cannot and or should not find fault in that ... One of the ones who will never fire a shot in Sparta unless its in self defense (ME) ... WPT ... (YAC) ...