How silly is the EC?

It has come to my attention that the EC's plan is to allow Sparta to fail in the eyes of the IDNR. As it fails the EC hopes it will be able to buy the property.

Problem is their willingness to sacrifice the sport to get property close to their homes.

Another issue.....the state of Illinois has never sold a State Park to anyone. I cant find where a State Park has ever been sold. Anyone know of a park the state said, "you guys take it. Who is gonna care?"

 

Hello. Just a wild, uninformed guess, but could the state be so strapped for cash they would consider liquidating some things to assist some favored pension plans which need $$? Garage sale time? Regards, Ed

 

Old goat 2,

In the mean time they will have done so much damage to the sport there will be no need for the property. They are not the brightest bulbs in the string, but I do not think they are that dumb. Cardinal has about 1000 shooters for the 16's today how many do you think will show up if Sparta does not improve. If Bill Matrin ever gives up on Sparta it will fall by the wayside. Sad but most likely true. Roger C.

 

If the EC wanted to buy it, good idea if they could, who's home would it be close to??

 

Tshot, If things do not make a dramatic improvement in the sport the dumbest thing the EC could do would be to buy the shooting center. With 12yrs. of use and no maintenance the infastructure is about worn out. The maintenance cost will escalate each year from now on. I'm sure the tax bill will be pretty high, there is none now. It will be a loosing deal for shooters. Roger C.
PS We could then get our H.O.F. building back, on the brighter side.

 

12 years is not very long. And what makes you think there is no maintenance? Things looked & worked fine this year. If the ATA could buy it for a good price that may work. The H.O.F. belongs there! Not in ohio!!

 

t shot, I never mentioned Ohio. We built the building knowing that the state of Ill. would own it. Do you think that was a wise move? I did not say that things were not OK at Sparta this year. I was there also, and I can compare it to the first shoot that I attended there. I was at the US open that was before the first grand, and I have been there every year that the grand has been there. The city of Sparta has not added any thing to make the shooters want to spend time there. After you shoot you wonder what is there to do here? Most of the better restaurants have either closed or were sold and the new owners are not interested in good food. If you consider hamburgers and pizza good food then you will not have a problem in Sparta. It was a waste of 50 million dollars on the part of the state of Ill. they will never recoup there money from that site. Sad but true. Roger C.

 

spoken like a person that never shot the grand in Vandalia or Sparta.

Except for the crap clogged toilets without TP. And the crime rate, not talking about the EC.

And there was the improvements the ATA members had to fork out due to the IDNR defaulting again on the lease.

Oh....and did I mention the GAH being as low as it was during the Korean War.

Bottom line....Keep the EC and the rest of the crime wave in the gun hate state. Don't need it in Ohio.

 

Gipson mentioned a lack of maintenance on the part of the IDNR in the minutes. And Dave Berlet's van bottoming out on the road.

 

Roger you still haven't said what EC member is going to make money if the ATA would buy the WSRC. Smithy I don't kno what shoot you want but it wasn't sparta! Maybe you never want to Sparta or vandalia! I HAVE!

 

Tshot, Are you delusional? I did not say anyone would make money if the ATA purchased the WSRC. I did say it will never generate enough income to repay the citizens of Ill. the fifty million they spent on building the place. A very good investment should repay the investor back in about seven years. That is after all expenses are paid up to date on the investment, with a dividend payed annually to the investor. The WSRC will never come close to doing that, no mater who owns it. The state has lost over $20,000,000.00 on that place, add that to the building cost, and even you should understand, it is a dog on the market. Why do you not put a group together and buy the WSRC, then you can see how the real world works. Roger C.

 

Entities that have the power to tax can calculate profit and losses differently? If each time money changes hands a taxing authority collects a percentage, after a time "all" of that money becomes theirs. This must be why politicians view your money as their money. Money spent in Sparta gets taxed, then taxed as income, then taxed when spent again and so on. Some of the money will leak to other states, but by and large if an event generates a million dollars of spending a taxing authority can count on almost all of it becoming theirs eventually. So WSRC may show a loss based upon the park income verses expenses, but the state of Illinois is certainly losing a lesser amount. Anyone know how many shooters or dollars spent it would take to break even for the State of Illinois?

 

Your last question is the important one. If they retained every cent spent the amount would have to surpassed the $70,000,000.00 mark. Your logic is deeply flawed. No mater how you slice and dice it they will never get their initial investment back. They know that now, why do you think the WRSC is in dire straits of not surviving. It is a nice place, but nice places fold up all the time. They must also be profitable. Roger C.

 

"Has the Complex lived up to its hype? Not exactly. In fact, the Complex’s total projected revenue collection from fiscal year 2004 through fiscal year 2011 falls short of the total amount the state appropriated to the Complex by more than $1.5 million."


https://www.illinoispolicy.org/repo...sparta-world-shooting-and-recreation-complex/

A little out of date, but the loss isn't as deep as you would think? Here's something from 2 years ago:

"The Illinois Department of Natural Resources says it costs $3 million each year to operate the site 50 miles southeast of St. Louis, including $400,000 in debt service.

The 10-year-old complex - built to house the national tournament that now may have to relocate - only brings in $1.1 million in annual revenue. A round of 171 state employee layoffs announced Wednesday includes nine workers at the shooting site."
http://www.sj-r.com/article/20150806/NEWS/150809705

That puts losses higher at 1.9 million per year.

 

tomk, $1.9 million a year loss is not a small mater to a state that is over ONE BILLION in the hole. Especially when there was a profit that was never realized. And no return on a $49.5 million investment.
And some of our brilliant posters think it would be a good deal for the ATA to own this money pit. I hope none of them work as advisers for investment firms. Roger C.