Is Loading data Always Correct-You Decide!

Interesting finding on my part last night. I'm currently shooting a SX-1 (don't ask why). My favorite load is 16.5 grs of 700-x, FIG 8 wad and a Winchester primer. Book says 1,150 FPS, The semi-auto action functions well with great ejection and targets break with authority.

Next load I tried was 16.0 Grs. of E3 with identical components. Book says 1,150 FPS yet the action failed to eject on occasion and breaks were less than stellar.

I'd say the book lies and load #2 was much slower that #1. Anyone believe that?

 

Ollie, this ejection thing is more complicated than one may think. For example, a ported 303 I shot would eject light AA's with no problem, but was iffy with heavy AA's which were certainly going at least faster.

Really, in general I've found that loading to a guide gives me shells which are often closer to what I am lead to expect than a randomly-selected box of factory shells, the speeds of which can vary a lot!

These speed tests were done with an inductive chronograph and a lot of shots and are as close to "right" as can be determined.







And this was with two Oehler 35P's and 20 shots of each:



I have found that a reloading guide will get me closer to an intended speed than some of the above.

N1H1

PS, I'd like to thank you again for that MX3S you sold me. It's a terrific gun for a fair price.

 

Instead of breaking out my trusty chronograph I also believe the felt recoil was less with load #2 also. I can also say heavier loads (Federal Gold Medals and Handicap paper) have even bypassed the shell catcher and landed several feet away with this particular gun. I'm gonna flat out say this semi-auto knows more about actual velocity that the reloading books!

 

I'll flat out say that a chronograph is the only way to be sure, Ollie. And yes, I've decided.

You may be right that and you should just add a lot of powder to even thing up, of course. You might want to tell your squadmates, though.

N1H1

 

Upping the charge to 16.5 grs. of E3 and checking the results. Since I'm not currently shooting my K-80 my squadmates won't mind my occasional double charges. Glad you're enjoying your toy!

 

Ollie here is my experience. Take it with s grain of salt. When I was loading 700x in the 80s I found that you needed too use a grain or so less than the book called for. The loads that I tested we're, 700x in Federal paper and plastic. If you wanted a lite load (1150) I used 16.0 grains with a 12s3 or a 12c1 was with a federal primer. I used a Ohler model 43 to check speed and pressure. I even found some lots of 700x I had to drop down to 15.5 grain's of 700x. I can't comment on E3. I haven't check any shot shell ballistics in over 10 years. Now I do know that the loading manuals for centerfire rifles can be missed leading. That's is all I've shot or tested in the last 6 or 7 years. If you are going to reload,you need a way to check speed and pressure. I use a program called,quick load that backs up my testing.

 

Yes Doug, I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment of 700-x performance. It always was hot stuff and my Sir Neil clones with their chronographs also agree with you. Another good reason to shoot a semi-auto as it doesn't rattle your brain as much!

 

Maybe the bigger question is why the books have been consistently wrong about 700-X performance over many years. Could it be they neglect to chrono test every load and simply copy old data?

 

I think they just used old data plus different lots of powder. Since my mentor,Ed Matunas died in 2015 I don't have a good go to source as far as handloader manuals go. What Ed taugh me was,you build your ballistics in a shot shell. Now centerfire is a different story.

 

Ollie what is the Burn Rate of both Powders, and the Manual PSI Ratings of the 2, E-3Vs 700-X, What I see is the Pressures are Lower w/E-3 than 700-X
which explains why the shell ejection is Liter, and may not Eject the shells, The Best Shells are around 9500psi-10,000 PSI, which burns Cleaner, The slower burning powders are softer on the shoulder, and harder to eject properly all the time. Slower burning Powders are not as clean Burning. I can tell when I use 800-X in 1200fps shells.

Gary Bryant.......................................DLS

 

Ollie for the past 10 years I load 4 powders, Longshot, 800-X, 700-X and Promo, the last 2 are faster burning Powders, and Burn Cleaner.

Gary Bryant..................................DLS

 

I have been liking the 1oz loads using Fed 12SO one oz wads in Rio & Top Gun Hulls @ 1300fps-1320fps using both 700-x & Promo

Gary Bryant.............................DLS

 

Ollie I was at the Cardinal Center Monday of the SCTP Shoot, some of those kids were shooting, 1235fps Rem. Nitro-27s, Win Super Hdcps 1250fps and RIO 1280fps shells on the 16yd line, I could tell by the Shells Sounds, and scores on some of those shooters.

The winning team shot Lower speed shells, No Loud Boomers.

I saw the New Shell Empties I picked up, so I had Proof Positive.

Gary Bryant.................................DLS

 

Pressure on both those loads is within a few 100 PSI.

 

I was told (advised ) by a long time shooter (many years ago) to shoot new shells if for no other reason when you go to the grand (when it was the Grand ) you had to shoot all new shells ... This was when I was into my second (maybe third) year of shooting so I did just that, shot a little less but made more money by doing so, or I was just getting a little better as time when by, probably a combination of both ... The press and all of the reloading goodies being gone made room for my new shells and there was no shot on the floor all the time ... I do not concern myself with what powder, shot, wad and none of the other technical stuff, I buy what I am going to shoot and let the chips (no pun intended) fall where they may ... I did not find it to be therapy like a lot of people say it is for them ... I usually buy so I get reasonably good prices or I just eat the difference ... I find it very difficult to believe a person loading for his or her personal shooting can compete with the quality of new shells, if there was an advantage I would think all of the Big Guns would be reloading so they had superior shells when money is on the line ... WPT ... (YAC) ...