Vienna OH no ATA but 40 squads?

Reports from Vienna is that they are getting around 40 squads for practice on Sundays. $3.00 for 25 birds.

 

Enjoy it while you can, no way they can keep in the black when all of the bills roll in at $3 per round.

 

It is a wealthy club! They are in the heartland of trapshooting. Near 100 other clubs within a few hours. They buy targets by the truckload and have all volunteer labor. Shipping is cheap, targets cheap and free labor!

It has been a while since they threw registered targets. Been that way since the ATA left them.

$3.00 gives them lots of money. Shooting league Mondays, Wednesday practice 10:30 am, and Sundays 10:30 am.

The whole idea of a profit for so little seems far fetched....unless you are from a trapshooting mecca.

 

$200 gross profit for an entire Sunday of Trapshooting means one trap repair puts the club in the red. Take those numbers to a loan officer and watch him laugh!

 

If a club is structured correctly it can operate on the $3 per round, members probably pay dues, and do most of the up keep to keep the club going ... The club looks great by the way so somebody or a bunch of some bodies are doing something right .... People do not mind paying if they get something for their money sooner or later ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

There would be enough "shot" laying on the ground after a year or two of shooting, to "reclaim" for enough money to fix several "traps" or anything else.

Not to mention the fact that most "Clubs" have some "well-to-do" members that are willing to donate funds, or items to sell or raffle, in exchange for a "write-off" at tax time.

The difference between "red-ink" and "black-ink" is more in line with someone's ability to manage, not just someone's ability to raise prices.

 

If the shot enters that tree line in the background then much of that shot is unrecoverable. Having managed a very profitable trap club for many years I never was inundated with donors with deep pockets but I knew how to make a substantial profit by charging enough. Heck, I remember weekends we turned over $3,500 net profit from a simple six trap layout. Those were the days!

 

IF ..... the "Club" is "FOR PROFIT", good for them having "weekends we turned over $3,500 net profit" .....

IF ..... the "Club" is "FOR PROFIT" they are NOT going to be "inundated with donors with deep pockets" .....

IF ..... the "Club" shoots STEEL SHOT it DOES NOT matter as much where the "tree line" is .....

SO ..... trying to tell others how much to "charge", not knowing what the "IF" may be, is asinine .....

 

I see you never attempted to manage a profitable gun club. Mine just so happened to have a seven day a week bar and food operation, stocked stream for fishing, rifle, pistol, sporting clay and archery ranges. It never dawned on me to expect all those other facilities to subsidize a trap range with artificially low entry fees. PROFIT is not a dirty word unless you're a liberal!

 

"PROFIT" is a "dirty word" to the "IRS" .....

IF ..... a "Club" ..... "files a TAX RETURN" ..... showing a "large PROFIT" ..... then, you are just "over-charging" shooters/members/fishermen/archery/drunks/those who eat, so the "IRS" can have the "PROFIT" .....

 

Having enough gross profit for little things like stocking more pheasants and fish, re-paving parking lots, replacing roofs and painting sheds tends to eat up those pre-IRS dollars. It's surprising how much gross profit is needed to pay that $1,000 monthly electric bill and a re-mortgage. Accumulating a mere 1,300 members shows we must have been doing something right. I obviously didn't vote for Hillary but I do remember paying .25 for a glass of beer so by your standards we're charging too much for beer too!

 

A "Club" that has "a re-mortgage" ..... Would you care to explain how a "very profitable" Club has a need to share it's "PROFIT" with a "Commercial Lender" .....

And now it is "gross profit", "Having enough gross profit for little things" ..... what happened to the "net profit" in post number 7 ????? "we turned over $3,500 net profit from a simple six trap layout" ......

Maybe no vote for "Hillary" ..... but it sounds like you agree with the "Sparta" way of reporting "PROFIT" .....

 

I see you understand little about club management. I'll try to explain something so simple even my 10 yo can understand. You run an event, you turn over $5,000, you then pay your help and subtract target cost leaving you a balance of $3,500. That was easy-see?

Then you decide it's time to do a complete remodel job on the bar and spend $135,000. The bank likes you and gladly loans you the money. You then pay it off from receipts from the various profitable committees. Real easy-wasn't it?

Or you can run multiple barely profitable events and hope some deep pocketed member comes to your rescue and pays your taxes, insurance, electric bill, garbage pickup etc.

Some of us are aware that a "not for profit" organization must do things to spend those gains to avoid an IRS confrontation.

 

User 1 kinda reminds me of my fish committee chairman. Each year he'd dream up a glowing report how he spent $5,000 for fish for his contest. Then he'd explain how his entry fee receipts totaled $1,500, his kitchen receipts were $500 and he received $500 in donations giving him a net profit of $2,500. When asked where the extra $2,500 in "profit" came from he said they sold chances to make up the difference.

Most of us who ever managed a multi-purposed club realize that they're not staffed by rocket scientists while fish and archery committees never charge enough to make a dime. Kinda like some trap clubs!

 

You, "do a complete remodel job on the bar and spend $135,000" ..... AND, "do remember paying .25 for a glass of beer so by your standards we're charging too much for beer too!" ..... then say I "understand little about club management" ..... you are funny .....

"You run an event, you turn over $5,000, you then pay your help and subtract target cost leaving you a balance of $3,500. That was easy-see?" ..... What I "SEE" is, someone pays for the "electric", trap "maintenance", and other "grounds maintenance" for your "event", NOT JUST "help" and "target cost" .....

Your paying a Commercial loan for a "Bar" to sell cheap beer, and expect the electric money, trap "maintenance", grass cutting, and EVERYTHING else to NOT be part of YOUR EVENT expense ..... you are way too funny .....

Most "Clubs" DO NOT SELL BEER OR ANY OTHER TYPE OF ALCOHOL , way too many legal hoops to jump through .....

 

Heck 'dawg ..... That "Club" may have to start "charging" ten bucks for each round of 25 "Trap" targets ..... you know, to "subsidize" the "Bar loan" and keep the "beer prices down to a quarter" .....

 

"most clubs don't sell beer"-never been to PA-have you? Oh, and they make plenty selling it (beer) that is-but not at '60's prices!!

 

That sounds interesting ...... because a "Pennsylvania Liquor License" looks like it could cost a lot of money ..... http://triblive.com/state/pennsylvania/6407292-74/license-licenses-liquor

A "Pennsylvania Liquor License" has some "restrictions", read https://www.lcbapps.lcb.state.pa.us/webapp/education/item_images/4036.pdf ..... number "11.", "28.", "32.", "46." and "48." look interesting ..... I guess your young son doesn't shoot there .....

"Speakeasies" are not legal in "Pennsylvania" ..... http://triblive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/regional/fayette/s_692091.html ..... as the "Continental Rod & Gun Club" found out.

Heck 'dawg, close the "seven day a week bar and food operation", that no doubt follows ALL FEDERAL, STATE, IRS, and LOCAL LAWS, and the "cost" of shooting "a round of Trap" may get in line with all the other "profitable gun club(s)".

 

Speakeasies may not be legal in PA but they sure are popular.

Never got an LCB citation while I ran the joint and yes-we did have a liquor license.

All my sons shot and still do shoot at beer selling clubs in PA as do many others.

You obviously do not know of what you speak!

 

I took something altogether different from the original posts than you fellows did. It seems to me that there can be a lot of fun had without shooting registered birds. This club seems to be doing fine without the ATA.

 

User1, The best clubs shooting non registered meat shoots and practice around here all have good bar type food and beer. I don't know about the licenses but all clubs run 50/50's and tip books regularly. Trap Shooting in Ohio means gambling so a lot of card playing is going on too.

I can't ever remember a local club getting into any trouble and I've been going to them for 60 yrs and shooting their shoots since I was 9 yrs old. My first win was a 10 birder for a can of peaches. I saw what Dave Berlet won for runner up at the Ohio state shoot on Friday and my peaches cost more than his "Trophy"

We ain't California or Illinois. We are about 80 to 90% Trumpers here. Brad

 

The purpose of all that cyber-chat was about, "no way they can keep in the black when all of the bills roll in at $3 per round", NOT about "beer" or food at the "Clubs" .....

ONLY if "beer sales" made target prices go up, would I, and most everyone else care one way or the other ..... The 'Dawg patting himself on the back started the thread down the "beer" path .....

 

User1 I was just pointing out how our small members clubs around here in Northwest Ohio operate. I have about a dozen 2 and 3 trap clubs within 40 min. of my house. Also there are several 4,5, and 6 trap clubs around that shoot ATA targets at least some of the time. All these clubs use very little paid help so making money is not high on the list of importance.

To be sure all the clubs don''t have beer, just the most successful ones. Every club does run some form of tip boards though. The food at the best shoots is also very good bar food but not expensive. French Fries, Burgers, Hot Dogs and the such. You can have a Burger and Fries with a can of pop for under 5 bucks. I don't know how the clubs finances are but they have all been around for as long as I can remember and that is for over 50 years.

The cost of living around here is very cheap. My County only has about 18,000 people. The Counties around mine all less the 100,000. Northwest Ohio is farm country, small towns.

I have shot in about 40 states and I can tell you that right around my house trap shooting is as cheap as anyplace. When I lived in Maryland I'd shoot some in PA and they seemed very close to us here back then. I've also shot a lot at little clubs in Missouri and Illinois and about always everywhere the rural clubs were much more reasonable than the urban ones.

I think a perspective on trap shooting costs is based a lot on where you live. Brad