Question for the M-12 experts

I'm looking at a 1957 M-12 Pigeon grade trap and want to make sure its legit. Please let me know if the rib is correct. Owner says the Morgan pad came from the factory? He's the second owner and said he knew the Dr that ordered it. What else should I look for?

Thanks

 

Look on each side of Rib, in front of receiver and you should see a Winchester Stamp on one side, in front of each other, The post of the rib should have a base on the bottom of the pins attaching rib, The rib was installed by Simmons, Special order I believe they had a special name, such as Super Field

Better Close ups is needed on the Rib at Reciever and Barrell for positive Ident.

Gary Bryant.....................................Dr.longshot

 

Thanks Gary, So if the Winchester stamp is to the side vs under the rib would indicate a factory rib, correct? Any thoughts on the Morgan pad. Does a Trap model say Trap on it anywhere?

 

This should help with identification as to what model the twelve is.


http://homestead-service.com/appraisals/12winShotgun/12win-model-configurations.htm

 

The rib looks like the Winchester Special which has round posts and no stamping on the edge reading Simmons. The stock has the Pigeon Grade checkering pattern. Gary is correct in this being a special order rib and the proof marks should be visible along side the rib. I used to have an identical Pigeon Grade made during the same time period minus the Morgan pad. I would question the Morgan pad coming from the factory. Make sure the rib has the small round posts. I would not let the pad be a deal breaker, as you can purchase replica Winchester pads. Also as Gary states, the rib posts should have a base where they attach to the barrel.

 

To my knowledge, and some would say that is an oxymoron, no model twelves were shipped from the factory with morgan pads.

Also, the word trap should be stamped on the frame

 

The bolt looks to have been engine turned which is correct for a Pigeon. The shell lifter underneath should be the same. Your pictures are incomplete to make a positive identification of this gun. Be very cautious when buying a Pigeon grade model 12, as there are many phonies out there. The word Trap was not stamped on mine. The only ones with Trap stamped on the bottom that I have ever seen were much older.

 

These pics should help, I think. I don't see any kind of base where the rib post attach but the proof marks are to the side indicating a factory rib.

Yes, all these questions are to help make sure it IS a real Pigeon, and honestly I feel its a legit Pigeon grade. You guys have been a huge help, thank you very much.

 

Looking at your newest pictures, I would say you have a gun with a legitimate Winchester Special rib which may be a Pigeon Grade.

 

You didn't give the Ser#, but most Win. Spec. ribs I've seen are in the 1,700-1,800 range and have no pin as the one illustrated.

I would think a Pigeon would have the Milled Posts rib. I have a factory non-pigeon 12 with the Spec. rib but mine is different at the receiver end.

I would not buy it as a Pigeon unless you could get it authenticated. I have never heard of a 12 coming from the factory with a Morgan pad.

Regards.....Gerald

 

Thanks for the info guys, in the end I decided to pass as the top of the wrist was a bit oil soaked.

 

Just being nosey, How Much did he want? Brad

 

I have never seen or heard of a Model 12 coming out of the factory with a Morgan Pad ... WPT ... (YAC) ...