Is There A Need For A New Trapshooting Organzation ????

Why not let each State Trapshooting Association fill the void ???? They can keep the scores and fees now sent to the "ATA".

If you attend a "State Shoot" you compete for resident, non-resident, or open purse and/or trophy. Why the need for anything else ????

Each State could use the additional money to provide accessible information for classification purposes. The need for a "central" record keeping Organization is no longer necessary.

Each State could "adopt" rules that their shooters want .... shooters in a low attendance State can get what they want, without changing things for everyone.

So .... is there a need for something "new" ????? Or .... can we take advantage of what already exists with the aid of modern technology ?????

 

Are their enough of us left that care ?

It seems to me if it wasn't for us Oldsters it might not matter.


Regards....Gerald

 

I like the idea!!

 

Its hard enough to find people to run for office in some State Asso. now, can't imagine what it would be like if it was like its own shooting organization ... The PITA would be the most logical answer to take over and operate in a broader area, they are already set up with the programs, computer systems, rules, etc , so all it would be is adding names / clubs to their list of members ... I talk to some shooters who are members of the ATA and PITA, most favor the operation and communications between the members and the Association ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

The number of "members" would not magically grow for the States. Look at the number of "current" active members by State, it is not impressive. People were way over-sold the "need" for "Sparta", the number of "active shooters" is not there. So the amount of "work" to supply accessible records by each State for "active" members, would not be as great as people are lead to believe .... the numbers tell the story.

 

I agree that the numbers are not impressive which would lead me to believe it would be easier to blend into an already established organization than create one of its own ... I'm not saying it could not be done, just saying from a practical standpoint it would be easier and must faster to hit the ground running with another Organization that has everything in order and is set up ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Doesn't each "State" have it's own Trapshooting Organization now ?????

 

Yes, but how would you work it if a shooter went to another state ..? Then each State would have to be connected or able to gain access to each other records ... I suppose it could or world work with a little modification ... Now, sure each state would want to accept the record keeping aspects of all the shoots, could be done but I can hear the moaning and groaning already ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

WPT ....sometimes moans are good.

 

The problems we see now, just multiply them by 50x!

 

Since 1995 3/4 of our once proud membership have left the ATA and may never come back. Tell us why something would be worse.

 

Not really .... there should be less. The shooters in any State will not be bound by the will of shooters in other States.

The money from "daily fees" that stay with the State, especially "high-volume" States, should more than pay for advancements in equipment to handle the added record-keeping duties. The shooter can still keep his/her " State card" with their records.

If you "travel" they can have the option of using your "State" standing of yardage and class, or use something they deem better.

Each State will grow or fail on it's own merit .... and not be the victim of poor decisions now forced on all.

 

Nor can they count on the cooperation of of shooters in other States.

So the nationwide aspect of trapshooting will be done away with? Each State will be free to make its own rules, establish its own procedures and set its own schedules?[/quote]Each State will grow or fail on it's own merit .... and not be the victim of poor decisions now forced on all.[/QUOTE]So without the guarantee of drawing shooters from other States to its events because of scheduling and rules conflicts, trap shooting in the small or low-population States will eventually shrivel up and blow away because of an absence of standard rules and policies that all shooters operate under? There is something seriously lacking here!

 

Hmmmm.....states that understand how to market trapshooting, like OH, NY, MD, PA and others would be free to use those successful policies while the Mississippi-like states that continue to fail will fail on their own merit.

I can see a few problems but lots of upside.

NO! They would blow away because of their failure to follow the policies of the successful states. Perfect!

 

No freeloaders getting free guns.

 

You guys are starting to believe your own BS.

If States like Mississippi were able to adapt the strategies of "successful" States don't you believe that they would have tried that by now? You guys are in love with a sure-fire plan to turn trap shooting on a national basis into a Class A#1 model of Europe or China during the era of the warring City-States... no unity, no progress. It took them centuries to see the logic of using the model that you now operate under, flaws and all!

 

Mah66 you need to read up.

Mississippi and a large group of non-shooting states just passed as a block the 15 shooter rule which is hurting the successful states. They did this since Mississippi cant get more than 15 shooters to an event. According to trap and field they still haven't. In the meantime the successful states and the ATA as a whole suffers.

That is not progress.

 

Competitive trapshooting is struggling because it takes too much time. Only the very young or old have the time to spend ALL day at a shoot. The rest of us gotta budget time. As for The Grand, I only went to one cuz summer time off ( between end and start of school) is so sought after and hard to get, it's too hard to spend a week or more on it. Now when my kids move out and I am an oldster, then I can spend more time at it. But being an oldster sport is part of the problem. Till then, non summer shoots are for me.

 

So my conclusion was NO, another organization model is not needed unles it solves the time problem

 

How much time did trapshooting take when we had 3 times as many shooters? Nonsensical!
I am betting tomk did not shoot then.

 

LOL TomK

So if shooters did not have to show up and shoot we would have more shooters show up and shoot.

And then we would need a new organization model?

 

The Individual State or even clubs for that matter can over ride certain ATA rules, maybe those modifications need to be expanded on ... There is strength in numbers even though the numbers in the ATA are dropping that remains the same ... The Problem is getting the members unified and together to get some major changes done that are long over due ... Greatest fear would be many of the States that do not have big numbers would sooner or later vanish not being able to support their own Association ... There is obviously a problem when the ATA loses more shooters than they sign up and retain, that problem is an internal problem fed by greed and entitlement ... I don't see it happening if you cannot get members to make a stand against the ATA and demand they make changes for betterment of the Association as well as the State Organizations as well as cut the entitlement programs for a certain group of people, how will anyone get them to stand together in smaller numbers ..? WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Yes I did shoot back then. As my children grew so did obligations. 3 hours here and there is manageable, but a local ATA shoot ends up requiring 8 am to 5 pm to shoot the whole program. 9 hours for about 2.5 hours of shooting? Add in some travel time as well.

If shooting not sitting is your goal..........?
I think you are overlooking the most significant factor reducing participation when you focus only on the ATA.

 

Tom....just a bit of news. When there were over 4,000 shooters at Vandalia, you had to show up to shoot. If you dont have time to shoot that is a "you" problem. It is not a "new" problem.

 

If time is an issue Tom then you have to admit moving the flag ship shoot 12 hours further west of the trapshooting heartland had to have an effect.

Fortunately the Cardinal Center bailed out the ATA.

 

Doesnt that happen now. Shooters going to different venues to get easier targets.

 

Everyone from Mississippi could shoot from the back fence.

 

I am not saying the location of the WSRC is not responsible for lower Grand attendance. Do you think the health of registered trapshooting depends on one event? Grand attendance is how it is measured?

If registered trapshooters have declined as much as has been claimed, that is a demographic shift. I would agree that the location of the WSRC has reduced attendance of the Grand. But I would not go so far as to blame that for everything. Registered shooting is mostly a local and regional thing from my perspective.

Today I registered targets. I solved my "me" problem by getting an early squad and shooting singles only. Done in an hour and a half. If it wouldn't be hours between events I would shoot more.

 

The matter of time management can be an issue for some people, they have to prioritize what they are going to use what time they have doing ... That does not create a problem for anyone other then them so yes it does become a me issue ... There are many clubs that require shooters to sign up for any given days events early that day or the day before so they know how to plan for that day ... I personally only care to shoot handicap so I either have to venture out to the club the day before or get there early (before 10 AM ) which for me creates a situation of extra traveling or sit and wait for the first event of the day to finish if the first event of the day is not handicap ... This has caused or at least given me good reason to not shoot as mush as I would like to on many occasions ... I can waste time not doing a lot of things besides sitting at the club doing nothing ... There are no absolute answer if a person goes (wants) to shoot the entire program, so you sit and wait or don't shoot ... Do what ever works for you and go from there, no more problem ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

I totally agree. However, if there are a lot more shooters LIKE ME, then it becomes a demographic trend. On the other hand, if active ATA memberships have not drastically reduced or even grown, then such problems are only for those unfortunate souls with little free time. Shooting singles only is a great solution for me. No problems getting an early squad and being done early, so many want later squads to reduce sitting around time waiting for handicap. I think I will do singles only a lot more. Pity, I did enjoy the hunt for punches.

Looking over shoot attendance numbers from :

http://www.trapandfield.com/Downloads/Shoot_Attendance_2015.pdf

I cant help but notice that there is usually a 10% or more reduction in numbers for the handicap events. And thats at the larger shoots. Do 10% not like handicap? Or do they not have the time?

About the only idea I have ever heard to reduce sitting around time is "all day doubles." I never had the opportunity to try it, but it sure would be nice to go shoot doubles in the down time between singles and handicap. Might shorten the whole day.

 

TomK

You ask the right questions and point in the right direction.

The first shooters leaving due to time and money were those old "Penalty A" shooters. They are the shooters that put the money in the shoot. Gradually it becomes a matter of expectation. Is the investment in time and money worth the money in the pot. 10% more per year say no.

The wealthy K80 shooter doesn't care.

The K80 shooting crowd is driving the ATA. At one time it was the money from the PA's.

How much commitment to win a trinket? How much practice? Will you take a vacation day?

Each state could have their own model.