Gipson red line draws nearer.

The December 15 red line drawn by Gipson and the EC is close now.
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Will the line be moved or will they just pretend they never drew it?
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Interesting dilemma for Gipson and the EC. They have the "assurance" from the IDNR the Sparta facility will be open for the Grand for sure. When they try to negotiate with another location they have nothing to offer as they won't commit to holding the event. They will only commit to holding the event if the Sparta deal doesn't work out. Tough position to deal from. The other elephant in the room is the low renewal rate they currently are struggling with. The idea there is that once they get the deal done they will pull out all the stops for the renewals but if it goes much longer shooters will have already made other plans. I got to sit down a minute and think - "What the hell happened? How did the ATA get in this position? I mean we have great minds with no personal agendas representing us don't we? Geez, it almost seems like nobody knows what's going on or perhaps they just aren't paying attention. I'm sure all the excellent Delegates that have been elected are asking all the right questions, so I guess I'm just confused." I know I heard somewhere they have a plan.

 

I read the Illinois State, IDNR, and Governors web site on a daily basis ... The Governor stated nothing is going to change until and if they come up with a budget proposal that can be agreed on and or a compromise on certain issues can be resolved ... There are many issues mentioned on the agenda and not one of them refers to the WSRC , that would make one guess the WSRC is not a priority compared to schools, education, medical assistance, child day care, transportation, etc ... The ATA is not in a position to confirm or dispute what is going to happen based on everything that is being posted so if they have a plan it must be a secret that only the chosen few will be told about and given the details of same ... I would get in touch with the Governor if I was the ED and EC and tell him we are sick and tired of his BS, either S%#$ or get off the pot, this would no doubt light a fire under his butt once he realized they were not kidding around any more ... Why would he not get moving so the Organization and operation of the WSRC could continue to contribute more to the States deficit as it has for the past 11 years ... Governor Rauner obviously does not envision anything "fantastic" about the" direction" they are headed in based on his failure to over ride all else and get the WSRC open and ready for the ATA to come to town ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

I am beginning to believe Rauner wants to shutter this place for good.

As WPT mentioned, he has larger priorities (fish to fry) right now, and I believe this place is just a thorn in his back side.

I will put my faith in the EC to do the right thing, make the right decisions, because after all, they are our elected officials.

Just like Obama, we have to live with them, so we just have to be faithful to the end.

No more second guessing...

Oh yes WPT, I also remember a lady telling us that The EC has a Plan "B" in the works some time ago. One who is in on the inside track I guess.

 

Could that be trap wife? Be patient.

 

Trapwife does not associate with any of us from the Dark Side, I sent her an E Mail to order some of the Leo DVD's and she never responded so I have been loaning out my own to a few of the younger shooters to try and keep them interested ... She is probably busy formulating plans for the new HOF building and figuring the lay outs in order for people to get the full effect when they stop by when passing through on their way to the grand ... I'm sure her heart is in the right place and she is doing all she can do to make sure the future of the ATA is preserved for future generations , as if Leo was still at her side ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Are you absolutely positive she received your request ?

 

The red line for Gipson isn't necessarily his red line. The vendors have their own red lines. Those lines don't move. The campers have red lines where they have to schedule vacations. All these things to be discussed at the EC meeting.

 

She has always got them before when I ordered the DVD why would she not get them now ..? I bought some from some people who were selling the ones they had purchased so I got them all covered for now ... I figured it can't hurt to have an extra copy sitting around just in case ... I actually bought Phil's, Harlen's, Daro's, and Leo's DVD's from the people who bought them and no longer needed them ... The only one I need to complete my library is Kayes so if anyone has one let me know ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Come on now you guys. I know we all get pessimistic at times but when you step back and take a second one feels much better because "they have a plan." I'll bet you'll find a new innovation introduced known as the adjustable red line. I mean the red line is just a guide right. I mean it's not really craved in stone or anything like that. The EC needs room to maneuver and stuff. This is big league negotiating going on here!

 

I am introducing the ATA EC line of shooting attire. Working on several "lines" of shirts. Right now we have the MN easy target T's



and the "3 hole Shirt" shown below.



Leaving no doubt you are not afraid of red lines.

 

Has a relocation committee been formed?

 

Yes!

 

The relocation committee will take time. Once the members are selected they will have to identify property and have additional time to purchase adjacent partials before making location known to the masses.

 

Paul Shaw, Dr.Frank Rivley, Mr.Jim Thompson to name a few should be the very first selected for a relocation committee if in fact there is or is going to be one ... These are men of Honor and Integrity that can do nothing but make the future better for all involved and in the best interest of the membership ... That in itself pretty much tells you they will not be selected ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

How far west do you think they will relocate to?
I have never been farther west than Missouri, but all of our friends
Who have always told us how wonderful the shooting is and
That they always shoot over their averages.
Is this a fact.
Greta c

 

Greta,

There have been many articles written and personal accounts by shooters regarding targets seemingly easier in the West. I recall Kay Ohye noting during his induction into the New Jersey Trapshooting Hall of Fame, that one of his most significant accomplishments was having the highest average in the nation one year when the majority of his targets were shot in the East.

Here's an article from the 1907 Pennsylvania State Shoot that I'm sure Jack would enjoy reading about but I've only included the discussion about Eastern vs. Western targets.


The great Rudy Etchen also talked about targets in the West when he was Firearms Editor for Trap and Field in its first year of operation (1956).



Enjoy Our History

Sure miss seeing You and Jack!

The History Buff from New Jersey

 

Thank you Kenny r, we miss seeing you TOO.

Missing is getting to be the norm, I still miss Toots T.

 

Why is there a relocation committee if the ATA is staying in Sparta? Brad

 

I would imagine because the ATA likes to stay right on top of things and make sure nothing catches them off guard (with their pants down, so to speak.) in the event the voters in the State of Illinois start to hold the Elected Officials responsible for their actions on behalf of same ... The EC , ED, and most of the BOD want to make sure everything is done in a way (on the up and up) that the members all feel and realize they are there for them and are acting in a responsible manner while taking care of business and looking out for the membership far into the future ... They would no doubt select, elect, and or put people on the committee that are Life Members of the ATA so they will remain available to do what they do (relocate) should the need arise in the future for them to act on behalf of the membership again and again if needed ... This just plain ol good business sense for the preservation of the ATA for many years to come or until they run out of money, which ever comes first ... WPT ... (YAC) ... (DSP)

 

The Red Line has now gone by.

The EC now have the Green Line, so have at it boys !

What is next ?

 

That Dec.15th date was a floating red line, it will float till July if needed! They will have their shoot at Sparta no matter how many or how few attend.

 

The 2016 Grand American is at Sparta.......!!!!!

 

So be it! Federal has spoken! Now everyone can rest easy knowing the Grand will be in Sparta. I bet it's going to be a real big one too. Yow know with the huge onslaught of camping reservations and vendors fighting for space. What do you think? Double last years attendance? Maybe even more. I'll bet they start building hotels, restaurants and such also.

 

And most likely to be held there until it' demise. The ones in power will beat the horse long after it is on the ground rather than admit they ever made a mistake.

 

I don't know what kind of KOOL_AID your drinking but it is affecting your brain.

GB...............DLS

 

And an airport within say a half mile or so. That wouldn't cost that much since it would only have to be open a couple of weeks a year. PERFECT!

 

PULL 2012LLC, Has been buying up all the property around the new location. As soon as that is in place they will announce the location. Roger C.

 

Two things - Roger for Christ sakes you know no one is supposed to know about that certain LLC and never, never is anyone allowed to mention it.
The recent meeting was productive I guess. Unfortunately none of us have the proper clearance to have any knowledge of which items and information were discussed. I do have a friend who knows a guy that has a second cousin who's friend is a substitute driver for a bread route in the Sparta area. He frequents a certain watering hole after his route is finished and I'm told he knows things. He knows stuff about stuff.

 

The Grand is quickly becoming a shoot of past importance. While some are mocking the Cardinal Center folks regarding the Grand possibly being held in Sparta in 2016 it will surely be smaller and much less significant. All the problems its facing have already starting taking a toll on the shoot and it will continue the downward spiral. The Cardinal Center will continue to do quite well in the future so I would guess the last laugh will probably he heard in Ohio. The Sparta legacy is turning out to be a sad one for trapshooters but by all means keep mocking those from Ohio and Pennsylvania, you know the ones still shooting at the larger shoots.

 

I still cannot believe the ATA EC GAVE the THOF a quarter of a million dollars to DONATE to the State of Illinois.

That quarter of a million came out of the members pocket book.

This will always set in my craw as to how stupid some in power can be.

I would just love to have one EC member come on here and explain the logic of that DONATION to the membership !

Now with the possible impending loss of the Sparta complex, this will be a devastating blow to our coffers.

 

I sincerely hope the Cardinal Center does well, as I've said before it's on my bucket list.

I also hope Sparta continues to be the place for the Grand.

Me, I just want to shoot and have fun, and no FG I'm not telling you where I shoot.

Some of you people continually mock the ATA and at the same time condemn others for mocking the CC. I don't think it's the CC that is being condemned it the people who mock the ATA the insults are directed to. Besides it shows the character of those who condemn the ATA as being one of those who can dish it out but go crying to mama when the table is turned.

 

Despite your hateful avatar. It is great we have you here otherwise we would have to go back to the worn out place to find a bigger Cardinal Center hater.

We still remember you telling us all the state shoots you attended that have 100 of 200 events and then not remembering the names of the states. I gave up wondering if you actually shoot trap.

As compared to the leaders that were involved in the 2012 Pull scam or those that made the backdoor deals with felon Blagojevich in the gun hate state.

Oh and then there is the local Ikes club you said that regularly throws the 3 hole targets. Is that where you met the giant rabbit?

We need you here Leonidas.....you and your big rabbit.

Keep us entertained until we get to the next red line.

 

1:20 PM ? Grade school must have gotten out early today.

 

It is a little hard to believe someone with an avatar showing a Cardinal with a line through it wants the Cardinal center to do well.

 

Well brad, Dr long wind and Roger the zombie....start drinking your Kool Aid ...The Grand Will be in SPARTA ya hooooooooooo!

 

If it winds up in Sparta in 2016, we can look forward to the same
Ole next year (2017).

Until everyone tires of these problems or whatever.

Greta c.

 

P.S.

Are all of this years BOD active or have there been changes
(not the president ) made""?

GRETA C

 

Sorry, I meant e.c.

Greta c

 

Federal, If the Grand is held at Sparta I will be there, will you? I have never missed one there yet. Are you to dumb to understand the statement? I do not have a problem with the ATA. I have a problem with the self dealing people that are in charge of the ATA offices. How much plainer can my statement be. I fall back to the quote; Ignorance can be fixed with education, stupidity is a lost cause. Roger C.

 

Roger, can you tell me how many events at Sparta are actually ATA run? I'm curious to know the difference between the ATA stuff, and everything else, so if the whole facility is closed, will the state just agree to open for the grand, or other ATA events, even though on another thread FG slammed me for thinking the place would open for three weeks a year, even though I've been to state home grounds that do just that.

 

The Grand at Sparta is a go according to rumors related by big donald and grntitan. They have a waiting list 50 deep for campsites so all is well. Although I'm thinking that waiting list might be for spots opening up after the campsite renewal time runs out. They might possibly have a couple hundred available at that point. But its good to have big donald and grntitan verify what we've been saying for some time. Is it time yet for an over under pool on attendance?

 

Yup, what are you putting the number at?

 

Good time for the pool, get a few heavy hitters in it this time Grntitan, Leonardis and a few who are in the know so we got something to work off of ... Less than 700 would be a good guess ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Looking at Saturday's Grand American Handicap in 2011 they had 2289 shooters. In 2012 they had 2198, in 2013 it was 1966 and 2014 1814. 2015 jumped up to 1991 so I'm thinking their probably looking at something around 1750-1800 on the top side.

 

The Grand should stay in Sparta .... because, they can hold the Grand in a much more fun place to stay, but the shoot still needs work if the SAME people are in charge of running it.

They are running out of people willing to spend the time and money to just hope for a miracle. I know most Trap-shooters feel they can break the kind of scores needed to win at the Grand, but they wake-up when, and if, they get there. So ... until it returns to something other than a rich donors club, let Sparta have it.