Poll: Will the WSRC Ever Reopen?

So, will it? Votes, please.

 

This is a loaded question being as "Ever" is or can be a long, long time ... The State of Illinois has a hole in the budget of $750 Million dollars, the Mayor of the City of Chicago is calling for a tax increase of $500 million , so that will make a considerable dent and help considerably if its all combined ... If the WSRC continues to be a leak and drains the funding faster than it can recover, there is an obvious problem to be confronted on a yearly basis ... The real estate taxes are high now, so how much higher can they go without some major problems coming out of it (think Detroit) ... The democrates as well as republicans are looking long and hard to see what can be eliminated in the future ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Don't count it out....

Plan "B" just may be some private folks may purchase it form the State.

One just never knows what can happen.

I have seen some strange things in my day.

 

Due to the land value alone at present day values I doubt that any private company/person could/ would be able to afford the Sparta Trapshooting complex and be able to run it at even as break even venture. But you never know, right now in my opinion it would be a sucker bet.

 

The land value being strip mined property and in a very rural part of Illinois might surprise you, or might surprise me ... The location, location, location clause comes back into effect for any development other than recreational/camping but without any points of interest (other than the HOF) might limit that ... I would not imagine some major corporation wanting to build a plant of some sort there or a distribution center because if the lacking of certain types of infrastructure in the immediate area ... Then there's the available work force which would also be limited ... In today world a lot of distribution is done by rail, not sure if Sparta has a rail head or not but if not that another big minus ... They could open a ZOO and have some "White Elephants" there if they could keep the locals from trying to hunt them for their own pleasure ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

"open a zoo", funny how I heard that somewhere else too!

 

I spoke with a sales rep in Sparta this morning. The feeling is that the Grand won't be held there next year. Also some talk going around of a sale to a private party, but that is not going to happen soon.

 

Wow, Ken I can't believe you would offer such damaging information that runs counter to the mainstream beliefs at other places. I'm sure it must have been just a dream.

 

Unfortunately speculation runs amuck, it appears that this will be the menu of the day and everyone will have an opinion, it will be interesting for a while

 

Ken, Is this rep reliable? Is he connected to the center in anyway. This is not good, I hope he is wrong. Roger C.

 

I checked the States web site and there is nothing on there as of last night, that does not mean anything obviously when States and Politicians are involved ... The WSRC web site has a schedule posted until the end of Dec, 2105, if that means or tells you anything ... The total days the facility is being used according to their site is 112 for the year of 2015 , lot of days open for more wedding receptions and celebrations to help offset the cost of operations and up keep ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Roger, The guy I spoke with is at Zanders Sporting Goods. The recently moved their operation from Baldwin Il to Sparta. Reliable, I would think so.

 

Zanders would be just as good as anyone else in the shooting industry especially if they are right there ... Was Zanders a vendor at the facility or did Gamliel's an exclusive deal ..? WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Gamliel's were the only shell vendors. They were $2.00 over Walmart per flat. Both were in line with industry standards. Roger C.

 

There was a time when people had no choice in the matter, new shells or nothing back in Vandalia and because it was a rule and part of the program it was accepted as such ... Then fast forward to Sparta and the shells rules were relaxed giving people a choice as to where they could buy new shells for the handicap portion of the program and making re pops legal to use for other events ... Not sure who or why took it upon themselves to eliminate the option of buying shells off the grounds with out an added expense, but it was a mistake ... The shell sales were down marginally at WalMart, but other sales were brisk so it really did not matter ... The WalMart will not have the same amount of shells available next year because they get shipments according to sales receipts, besides they are well aware of the possibility that the shoot will not be hosted at the WSRC ... Who ever tried to force the issue of buying shells on the grounds did not work but could effect shooters in the future if there is a future in Sparta ... Its not a matter of money all the time, many times its a matter of choice based on principle and integrity ... WPT ... (YAC) ... (Double Secret Probabation guy) , obviously its not even a secret ...

 

Dear Double Secret Probation Guy (not secret any more)
Maybe just maybe if the State of Illinois passess a budget that allows funding for the WSRC for 2016 and just maybe someone in some department in the State administration allows for the purchase of shells for the Grand competition other that on WSRC property then maybe Walmart will again stock shells for sale during the Grand which maybe will increase profit fot the Sparta Walmart. Maybe increase your stock dividends too. Maybe get them to sell some of your Pet Rocks after you bring them back into circulation. Sure is a lot of maybe's for one short paragraph. (couldn't resist this, my bad)

 

The WSRC has not closed yet as of 9/7/15. Zander's was not, nor have they ever been, a vendor at the Grand. The family has a large dealer only business in Sparta. They did not recently relocate to Sparta. That move was well over 5 years ago. The original business was located on the family farm behind the Baldwin Power plant lake. Then they moved out to the highway location. Then they moved to Sparta. Glenda Zanders relocated her business to the old Zanders facility. If you shoot Noblesport shells or primers they ultimately came thru her own business. I know them.

 

oldphart,
Being a man of principle, I would buy the hunting license and buy all of my shells off site ... The WalMart in Sparta does a great business all year and the shell sales were only a bonus but not the the point where it will have any real impact on the stores over all performance ... The real point is the shooters having a choice got eliminated which is what I have a problem with ... If you can't beat the competition eliminate them then force feed the customers, which obviously did not work any way ... WalMart actually did 80% of what they would normally do in shell sales, other sales increased over 47% compared to last year for the same month so there was really no adverse effect ... WalMart stock is a keeper, like having money in the bank and I get some good information about the company that I find very interesting ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

A ZOO....Too funny !

But some BIG business men buy a place they like just for the Tax Deduction on the annual loss.

I knew just that type of man. Too bad he has passed, he was very sharp and perhaps could have helped shed some light on this mess.

 

Let's just consider this as a possibility: Someone, or some corporation, with deep pockets, purchases the WSRC. First thing they built, on site, would be a large hotel/motel with all the amenities. In addition to the shooting sports, they invested in building a 5 star, world class golf course on the site that could be included on the PGA tour. They also built a world class RV park, and some townhouses as well. Tied it all together with cobblestone roads, for golf cart use only, nicely landscaped, and put in a much larger lake to fish in. A huge recreation center with an indoor pool, spa's sauna, etc..... Then they sold memberships to the facility that would allow total access to the entire venue.... Much like the Silver Dollar. Kept prices for using the facility at a reasonable rate to attract more usage. Making the WSRC a success is doable, but, it would take a lot of financing and investors to make it work. The possibilities are endless, all it takes is imagination, money, development, and good management.....

 

Call Trump !!!

 

No matter what it's still in the middle of nowhere and no major access.

 

Dan,
I only wish your idea could be right, problem is most major corporations who would have the funding would never put it at risk by getting involved in something that already has proven to be a major loser ... The idea of building a 5 Star hotel on site would only complicate matters even worse ... I was told that the RV parking is at least close to world class by a few who had leases but did not renew at the new rates ... Cobblestone paths for golf carts would no doubt add a touch of class over busted up black top ... The amount of money it would take to make it what you described would be close to what they paid to build Disneyland but that place make major dollars to off set the debt incurred in building it ... The WSRC is what it is and with a few exceptions it will always be just that and still out in the middle of no place where they can't draw a crowd ... The State of Illinois along with trying to finalize a budget will sooner or later come up with a formula to off set the expense the State has accumulated over the past 11 years of operation, that will be interesting ... There is nothing on the States site that even gives a hint that anything is going on so they must be on vacation or taking a break ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

There is only a few places of "busted up asphalt' but a good way to pay for fixing it would be to put a 20% tax on retirement checks that go out of State.

If these people are going to draw off the Illinois budget and not support the State in any other way they should pay a relocation of funds tax.

 

Spoken like a true Communist.

 

I think they should tax anyone and everyone who uses and utilizes the facility besides charge a users fee to all who attend any and all events at the facility ... If someone is going to take a day and shop, charge them say $15 entry fee, plus tax ... If people are going to shoot at the biggest little shoot in the world make them pay an added fee of say $250.00 each for a users fee plus the event fee's ($25.00 each) and they should pay taxes on all of those fees also ... Daily parking fees of $25.00 plus tax to support and maintain the roadways ... Shells sold on the grounds should include a fee of $10.00 per flat or $2.00 per individual box for having them right there on site ...
My retirement checks do not come from the State of Illinois so I would be exempt from any and all taxes but agree with Leonidas on all other retirement checks issued by the State for all employees who worked for the state ... People want a facility such as the WSRC but nobody wants to pay for it, that just does not play out ... If there is any deficit after all of the taxes are collected and paid, then the association hosting said event should be responsible for the difference ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

You may be right Bill, but, I still think it's doable. It may be a proven loser, but, if it had the things to offer that would make it profitable, that could turn around..Maybe put a casino on the property along with the hotel? Live entertainment with class bookings, etc. Cater to the over 60 crowd, which as we all know is the fastest growing segment of our population. They also, coincidentally, have the most disposable income. I believe it could work if it was put together right.... After all, it's only money, right? And we all know it takes money to make money.

 

Shooters donot attend the WRSC now because of the cost and location and in the middle of no where, if the additional costs were implemented as described above you would have less attendance than you have now and create a larger white elephant, of course this is just my opinion.

 

The State of Illinois cannot (will not) make payments to winners (over $25,000) of the States lottery, I would say reopening of the WSRC would not be on the top of the priority list right now that being the case ... Lottery players are filing suit against the State of Illinois so there is another can of worms thrown into the mix for good measure ... I would imagine there is going to be quite a tax hike called for in the very near future and they still will not balance the budget ... Stay tuned, this can get nasty ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

So when the guy that spends a few dollars a week on the lotto finds out he has no chance of winning the big prizes he quits playing.

Sound familiar?

 

WSC can't close. Just read info on Internet. The WSC has lakes on the property controlled by the Feds so the state can't close the WSC without Fed approval. I guess the Feds must have special fish in the ponds, Ah, I mean lakes, really big lakes. Learn something new everyday. Thank God for informative shooting sites.

 

Seitz your kidding around is actually close to a real issue in the area. As per IDNR there are cesspools in the area with corrumpere bufo (latin).

The species is native to that area.

 

Corrumpere bufo -- Oh no. Corrupt toads.

 

Sparta may be a moot subject if what one of Mr Fishburn's inner circle guys told me..."yes were planning to add more traps, just not making it official yet".

 

Talk about a humbling experience if the ATA is forced to go back to Ohio to continue to have a grand American Champion shoot ... Talk about swallowing their pride and eating a crow, probably what the Talking Head (Lynn Gipson) was there about a few months ago at the state shoot ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

It's news to me if the CC is planning on adding trap fields, even if the grand is coming no need to add more than 5 fields, that would give CC 2 more banks for Clay Target day which would be 14 banks and 1 make up trap, all that would be needed. No need to go crazy building fields like Illinois did in Sparta. Just because you have room doesn't mean it needs to be done, at least not until the ATA proves that an Ohio grand can still draw a crowd. You shouldn't forget that registered shooting has lost 50,000 active members in the last 30 years and a lot of active members today are the sctp kids who don't shoot much more than sctp events. Not the number of shooters here today as 2005 and I don't see members rushing to join unless the rules governing registered ATA changes, (all the things talked about here and tsc for years).

We're watching years of mismanagement and corruption come to it's logical conclusion. No one should be surprised. I'll give a pass the I newbies and sctp kids, but the old guys NO. Brad

 

I think the reasoning behind all of the traps in Sparta, was so the ATA would not have to approach the IDNR/ State of Illinois and have them put in additional traps ("State Expansion Program") at a later date which would of been an additional expenditure for them to absorb in the future ... The ATA provided the trap machines so this way they didn't need any place to store them if they just stored them in the additional trap houses that were provided and made it the longest trap line in the world that would never be utilized ... The ATA was thinking and planning into the future while the State of Illinois dragged its feet and didn't provide enough shooters to make the shoot pay off for all involved ... The ATA had planned on a "Fantastic Direction Program" several years ago, the State could not keep up being as this was their first venture into trap shooting and they were not sure what to do next when no body showed up ... You would of thunk they would of put out "Welcome Shooters" signs or something to let the shooters know they were welcome ... I would suggest signs, lots of signs saying "Welcome Shooters", if they don't use them they can go in the business of selling "Welcome Shooters" to some places that can use them ... You have to think outside of the box, or the world will pass you by kind of like the exit sign for Sparta and the WSRC off of the free way ... Poor planning on the States part and lack of support by all of the local shooters from Sparta, would be my guess as to why there is a problem ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

The ATA predicted that the State of Illinois shooters and the surrounding states would more that makeup for the shooters that would no longer drive the distance from the eastern states and not attend at the WRSC.
What crystal ball were the EC gazing into to come up with this malarky and if they (the EC ) thought this to be true where are all the expectant shooters now. They never did show. I don't believe the EC ever expected the attendance to drop at the WRSC as they were isolated from the membership and the many vendors who had stated they would not be going to Sparta. Build it and they will come was their statement, and so it was.