Not much interest in 200 Singles

It seems that fewer shoots offer 200 singles events these days.
Is it harder to get that leg of a Grand Slam ?

 

I believe it had a lot to do with shell availability.

 

Singles were interesting when when the ATA threw wider angles. Our delegates have dummied down the sport. Singles are boring after 25.

 

Boring target presentation in trapshooting is good. It convinces younger shooters such as SCTP at an early age that Sporting Clays, Five Stand, Protector, and Live Birds, are more enjoyable games. Easy ATA targets are good for those games.

Like Kiehl said, those other games are taking the ATA’s lunch, and the blame goes to the ATA Delegates.

 

All those individuals claiming Singles are boring should post how many 200'ds they have to their name. I'll betcha in most cases absolutely none. Top shooters were averaging 99+ in Singles regardless of what hole they were in. That said, post your averages and then complain! BTW, in 1975 13 shooters posted 99+ averages. That was before voice systems and orange targets.

 

Oleo is spot on!!!

in my experience teaching those that say singles are boring are the ones that cannot break 100x100 little lone 200 straight.

BTW In 1995 the year of the three hole target I had 13 200 straights.

and if you think singles are boring ask Brad what our squad was like the four years we shot together.

 

My observation is the same as Phil and Oleo. I try to get singles events included in programs, but the answer is always that they are boring.
Yet, no one saying that has ever broke 200!

 

The challenge in singles is not falling asleep. ZZZZZZ

Those old averages were padded out west. Averages don’t mean squat. I know of clubs attended by All Americans that shot one hole targets with perfect backgrounds.

I talk to SCTP kids in NW Ohio. Almost all say singles are boring.

Miss 2 on the first hundred you might as well go home.

 

There are few if any delegates on the current ATA BOD that were present in 1995 when the change to target presentation was made so it is a stretch to blame current delegates for dumming down the sport.

 

If they are so easy why would you miss 2? I know its boring not lack of skill.

 

Really? It is a stretch? FYI Multifired….the delegates get together every year. They can call as many meetings as they want. It is their job. They make the rules.

Rather than make improvements such as making the targets more sporting they have spent their time trying to prop up a venue no one wants.

The delegates had time to award themselves free K80s.

The delegates tho say they never have time make the voting non secret. Too busy for that!

Don’t tell us it isn’t the delegates job. Serve your Kool aide somewhere else.

 

ATA requires state tournament, Zone, Grand & Satellite Grand singles events for championship & HAA to be 200 birds.

 

Maybe "boring" is an incorrect word. Maybe "frustrating" is better for those who can't!

 

9 of those 13 shooters who broke 99+ averages in 1975 were from East of the Mississippi including Frank Little. I'd imagine that was with a BT-99 too.

 

Alf, those are about the only shoots we see 200 singles.
Lots of weekend shoots used to be 200 singles and a handicap Saturday, and 100 cap and 100 doubles Sunday. Seems like we never see that, or similar, anymore.

 

Non-sensical post Dawg.

The fact that a person is from Delaware doesn’t mean he shot there. I am from CA. I shot mostly in the east and I never went to one of the clubs you threw targets for as I read you participated in PA cheating.

Cheating/ easy targets were big in 70’s and 80’s. Especially in Central Mountain states. High altitude one hole targets. You weren’t the only cheat.

 

Phil…,,please post the clubs you shot those 200 straights that year.
Phil…, please tell the forum why you voted to make the game easier by giving two one time two yard reductions.
Be careful, I have a friend that researches this stuff. Wink wink.

 

I wouldn't know since I never shot in any Central Mountain States. Since the targets were so easy there why did you refuse to shoot 'em? I suppose that's why Ray Stafford shot those high averages-easy targets. So, you're saying the East shot tougher targets and that's why you shot there. I'd say you're FOS. I don't know of any sane shooters who lived in CA but shot in PA. Sure, Frank Little shot all his targets West of the Mississippi, but I sure saw enough of him at plenty of local shoots that shot 3-hole targets and 50 yd. Doubles.

 

Wrong again. The 2 yard free reductions were offered only one year- I know because I got those two free ones and another for an annual review-from the 27 to the 24. There were a few crybabies complaining when some shooters went from the 20 to the 18 and won a few shoots. Were you one of them?

 

Ha! Lots of angst here.

I was just wondering why we don't throw more singles.

One advantage to 16s is that to attract newer shooters, singles events help. Obviously, they have more success at 16 yards rather than farther back.

 

"went from the 20 to the 18 and won a few shoots"

I know of one shooter that won a shoot.

You don't have to win many,,,,if you pick the right one.

 

Free two yards off was for two years in a row. The ATA motto of never let a bad idea go to waste was in play that second year.

Singles became fun when I shot my 20 gage. Before that I broke a lot of 200's over the years and to me it was like working in a factory and running a drill press, if I didn't pay attention I'd drill a hole in my finger.

When I became a real good singles shooter was when I shot not afraid to miss. I've always thought that good single shooters, not great, shoot afraid to miss and not wanting to hit it.

I was always a better single shooter when the weather was bad. It did bore me on easy targets. I shot those singles well at the grands that Kiner is talking about because of the guys I was shooting with. I couldn't miss even one so I'd pay attention. After we quit that squad I went to the 20 gage and then quit shooting the HOA's and just shot the caps for the money for the last few years I shot.

The ATA runied any good feelings I had about Trap Shooting and I don't miss the shoots at all but I do miss some of the old people I shot with.

I have very little respect for anything Trap Shooter related today, and just a few of the shooters around today.

I'm sure they don't miss me and I don't miss them.

To Sum it up 16's are boring and 200 targets are a waste of time and money for what you get out of it. Targets $43+ a hundred, daily fees about $5, new shells $12+ a box it comes to about a buck a shot. A Buck a Shot that if you miss one you lose and if you break them all you spend another couple of hundred on ammo to win the shoot off and get a not so nice trophy for doing it. I'd like to se the positive spin on that.

 

Brad, most of those old people we shot with are dead. Some of 'em were plenty of fun.

 

Some of the best shoots I attended in the distant past consisted of 100 Singles, 50 Handicap and 25 prs. of Doubles. Maybe in these times of crazy prices it's lime to re-think those old programs.

 

Brad, you have this all wrong. To be a shooter today you need a $250,000 minimum motor home and the latest engraved high end trap gun. Then you can break a 96/100 and complain the targets were too easy and the price of a bag of wads went up .25! Stay in the past!

 

The guys and the laughs are what I miss the most. I shot 16's and 27 yrd caps with the same 5 guys all over SWPA back in the "Golden Years". I spent EVERY extra penny I made working in the USS Homestead mill on shooting. I was obsessed with registered targets. I figured that between practice, weekday leagues (3) and shooting ata every weekend, I shot right around 30K targets a year. Of course, that was when shot was less than $10 a bag and the other components were "cheap". The 5 of us would split 25 full cases (500 per) of Fed papers from Leo Cerar at the start of the season just for the caps, and that didn't get us through the whole season.

Fellow member Shamus and I are the 2 that are left.

Wish I had a dollar for every time I laughed at a joke or a prank, either off, or ON the line. I could write a book. That's what I miss the most.

 

If Phil broke 14-200 straights in one year that's 14 more than any CA past president ever broke in his lifetime.

 

Probably right about the 200 straights. But you sounded a bit senile when you missed the two yard reduction happening back to back. I am old…but my brain isnt that bad.

The move, making targets easier, cheating, and the repeated two yard reductions were the worst things to happen in the sport. You said you were part of the cheating and you can’t remember the two yard reduction.

I wonder if Phil remembers the reductions.

 

Explain why reductions are bad for handicap trapshooting!

 

Need I say manditory reductions once again?

 

Just another thought about 200 singles: As our membership ages, not all older members have will will or stamina to shoot 200 singles back to back. Me, at 82, among them. Heck, sometimes, if it's hot, completing a 100 target event is a struggle. Some clubs allow SR Vets to shoot (and pay) for just half of the event, but most do not. Jack Deisher who broke the 1st Sr Vet 200 straight at the Cardinal Ctr in ~2014 couldn't complete a 200 target event the last few years he shot, and lobbied hard to get a 100 target sub-event adopted, to no avail. Actually, Bob Stuart's program at Elysburg had no provision to allow it, and Skip Klinger proposed permitting the shooter to pay for 200 targets then refund a shoot cupon for 100 targets, but both Skip & Jack were gone before it could be implemented.

 

The MTA in Mason prefers to throw 200 bird doubles events instead. We feature a 200 bird doubles prelim event at the (2) team shoots and have put it on the added Thursday for the Central Zone.

And we do allow just 100 birds to be shot out of a 200 bird event.

 

It’s amazing that our current delegates have just watched time go by and done nothing to improve the game.

 

easy targets mislead new shooters to think trap is an easy sport. when in truth, the only reason it was made easy is so more kids could compete for scholorships thru ata meets. its one cute little tightly wound package where the education system and ata make money off of the sport, by offering less birds for the same reward, with no real interest in creating true crack shots who can swing a gun on 5 hole targets.
add to that the gun industry and instructors training and teaching kids parents (and kids) (YOU MUST HAVE A GUN FITTED TO YOU,) and playing on peer pressure that kids fall victim to growing up...having to have a 10,000.00 trap gun to rub in their rivals faces....gun industry, ata, ammo makers (selling ammo at twice the cost,) and the education system are all snoring dollar signs in bed together.

pretty slick. everyone gets the same slice of $$ pie with 1/2 the effort...
while the games true intend goes into the closet.

current trap shooting is akin to no contact flag football.

 

PA State Trapshooting Championship Singles 2022 had 840 entries and only one 200 straight. Real easy-aren't they? The biggest crybabies during the one year 3-hole experiment were the marathon shooters. After target totals went down they rescinded the rule. Target shotguns for kids often exceed $10,000-ask my kid!

 

Because of the very strong, intense wind, (which seemed to last the whole target year there).

Jon Reitz

 

If you need to shoot 200 targets to find a winner or how many are in the shoot off it is boring. Hi score should be 93 of 100.

 

I vote we replace singles with wobble!! Sign me up!

 

I'd prefer a 1-2-3-4 hole event.

 

Jon is spot on. It was an interesting year, and I can't remember a single day of PSSA shooting that we weren't battling the wind.. not just breezes either... howling winds. My hat's off to the person who shot 200 straight... might have been Debby.

 

If I may quote Kay Ohye "the wind is your friend". I remember a day many moons ago when the late Frank Little broke a 200 at Pine Belt in NJ. The wind was atrocious and much worse than I can ever recall at Elysburg. Great shooters are seldom affected by wind.

 

Right dog

 

Looks as if there was only one good shooter, then. But, didn't they all go to the grand & didn't they shoot amazing scores at Sparta? How do you account for the difference between the scores back East (MD, PA, VA, WV, and the Cardinal center) There were more 100 straights at the Grand than all those shoots combined, last year. Must be something in the water, at Sparta.

 

They let their shooters change their scores.

 

I have shot 2 200 singles. I have a 96.5 average. I think shooting 100 straight from the 27 is the hardest test for a grand slam.

 

I still enjoy singles a lot. I've shot many 100 straights,197s, 198s, 199s, but never a 200. So it's still immense fun having a bucket list goal and feeling the excitement when I get north of 150x150. Brad's right about registered targets being expensive, but thankfully I make a good living and only attend a limited number of big shoots, so the expense is tolerable.

BTW, I've seen Dave Berlet, Kay Ohye, and several other older top shooters at countless tournaments and they sure seemed to be having fun shooting singles. Some do, some don't. To each their own. Do what makes you happy, and let others do the same. That's America.

-Roy

 

I shot at a combined shoot that included one round of wobble many years ago and coordinated by our good friend and former fine shooter John Muir. I believe I broke a 23 or 24 with two shots while Frank Little broke all of 'em with a single barrel. Not much of a challenge back then.

 

Target presentation and visibility-Elysburg wouldn't know how for the first one and can't fix the last one. Besides, there aren't enough better shooters allowed on bank 3!

 

I feel your pain. I never broke a 100 from any handicap yardage and my doubles are embarrassing.

 

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I remember most the ones I missed.
17 targets that I shoot over and over and over in my head like it was yesterday.

The 2 in front of the grandstands for the Prelim caps shoot off at the Grand. (First year there.) Shamus was more nervous than I was.
The 3 that gave me a 199 (3 times)
The 6 that gave me a 98 from the fence (3 times)
The 6 that gave me a 98 in doubles (3 times) And that was in the same year, LOL. (One was the Saturday doubles at the Grand.) That one hurt.

I could tell you exactly where it was, and which targets they were, and that was long time ago. Sometimes having a good memory is a curse.

I had 12 99's on my card one year. When he looked at my card at the classification table Ray Dome shook his head and asked,
Hey kid, you got something against 100 straights?

I told him no, just that sometimes Mr. Stupid shows up at the wrong time. He told me he hoped I left him home for the week.

As the late great Roger Smith said, the "Golden Years".

 

Sort of like getting to call your own chips.

 

Some of us may still remember Charlie Chip.

 

Just a note about the so called year of the three hole….not everyone was throwing three hole targets. Five years earlier not everyone was throwing 3 hole targets. Not that facts matter much.

 

There was that guy Earl Scripture that got tossed to the wolves for selling easy targets.

 

"Must be something in the water, at Sparta"

Yeah, Kool-Aid

 

Easy or not when you get old 200 just don't cut it

 

Plaw i'm sure glad that I must not be old yet because I still enjoy 200 singles programs The 200's are very hard to come by these last few years,but I still got hope. Over the years I have broke 84 200's with the most of them coming in the 60's, 70's and 80's. Then the targets were hand set and they were thrown by pushing a button. No voice calls back then. I enjoy shooting singles. I enjoy shooting handicap, and I enjoy shooting doubles. If you don't enjoy shooting one of the events don't sign up. Back in the past years if you could break 200 at a large shoot often times you could pretty much pay for the whole shoot. Louie Morgan has 100 200 straights and I have 84 and to the best of my knowledge we are 1 and 2 in Ohio. Each disipline has their own challenges and it really isn't relavent to say that one of the 3 is the lesser of the three. To win a HOA or a HAA at a major shoot which event do you have to shoot well? The answer is all 3. Not only do I enjoy trapshooting I also enjoy the story telling and just being around most of the shooters.

Dave Berlet