??? Pat Trap

I have worked in 3 different trap clubs in the past and all of those clubs strived to afford to put in Pat traps.

I was wondering if that is the same focus these days or has something else come along that is better?

Just a thought..

 

Seems like the Pats are the most popular trap around.

 

Remember too, the machine must be capable of throwing good doubles targets.

 

The most popular does not mean the best. The pat will never be the best, to many issues with target variation. With a short carrier arm, and a rubber band.
Roger C.

 

I heard the the GMV model was the best Doubles throwing machine, But it required more to change a trap house for these to fit.

 

You had to lower the pedestal. To get the throwing arm on the same level as the shooting pads. You could not put a Pat in a proper built trap house. When you put the the throwing arm of a Pat on the same level as the shooting pads, you had to raise the roof of the trap house. Roger C.
P.S. The super Star is and was the best throwing target machine ever made.

 

It seems that for most of the clubs Pats are the common one anymore. But if it throws a legal target I will enjoy shooting at it.

 

The Pat's can not throw a legal target unless you raise the roof on the trap house. If you set the machine to have the throwing arm on the same level as the shooting stations, the magazine will hit the top of the house. That is why even if you set the height with a height pole the angle is off and the target goes higher. The throwing arm will be to low if you do not raise the roof. Roger C.
The ATA made a lot of adjustments to the target setting rules to use these machines.

 

That's very interesting, The one club that I was involved we actually cut the concrete roofs off and installed roll away roofs.
Then we cut the pedestals out to a point so the Pats would fit. A lot of work but it had to be done.

 

IF THE THROWING ARM IS NOT ON THE SAME LEVEL AS THE SHOOTING PADS IT WILL NOT PUT A PROPER TARGET FLIGHT IN THE AIR. ROGER C.

 

Let me get this straight, your saying Cardinal center, WSRC, and newer clubs with spec houses and pats all throw illegal targets? How can the host ATA events and not throw a legal target?

 

Yes that is what it said in the ATA book, But most trap fields built higher then ( or they seem higher then ) the throwing Arm of a trap machine,
But most of the fields were set for the old Western trap machines

 

The ATA rule book states: It is recommended that the throwing surface (throwing arm or plate) of the trap machine be on the same level as that of Post 3 and the target height setting pad. Its recommended not mandatory.

 

Really?

 

The ATA bent all the rules of target flight to let the Pat's throw registered targets. When you use a height pole with the machine setting to low in the house the angle is changed, thus the target keep going up longer.
John, draw a little diagram on a sheet of paper. The anchor point being the height pole. Change the starting point up and down to represent the machine. Now draw a line from the two starting points thru the height pole . Then modify that adjusting for the size of a trap field. What do you see?
Kolar 25, They changed the rules, from a rule to a suggestion because the machine did not comply. That was the begining of the rules not being followed in our sport.
Roger C.
Why do you think so many shooters complain about the targets? The machines are set different in many clubs, and in many trap houses in many clubs.

 

I think the only place that I have shot targets and no one complained was Spanish Fork Utah, If you have not had the chance its really a neat place. Watch the updrafts, I am not sure what traps are used here.

 

I shot there a couple of years ago. Great place to shoot. Broke 196 X 200 FROM THE 27 YD. LINE. At there Labor day shoot. Roger C.

 

Roger, can you cite the rule that was changed? I found the ‘suggestion’ you referenced in the current rule book. But, I looked back in some of the older rule books and a don’t see any reference to the height of the throwing arm. Maybe, it’s not located in the same section as the new ‘suggestion’ is located.

 

The old rule book stated that the throwing arm is to be on the same plain as the shooting pads. That may not the the specific wording. The new rule only make a suggestion to that. The OSTA refused to certify the machines when they were installed in FINDLEY OHIO. THE ATA OVER RULED THEM. They did nothing to benefit our sport. Roger C.

 

Roger, I’ve looked in the old rule books and that rule is just not there. I didn’t see any wording that could have been interpreted to mean that.

Sounds like the OSTA tried to enforce a rule that didn’t exist.

I just don’t see where the ATA changed a rule to accommodate the Pat traps.

 

Iowa guy I manufactured trap machines. The rule is in there some where. The Pat is the only machine that did not comply. Roger C.

 

Iowa guy did you see pages 46 47 48 and page 56 in the rule book, it points out some of the information about targets and trap houses. I can't say good or bad just that it talks about the stuff.

 

My question is: what part of the throw arm, throw plate, or loaded target is “suggested” to be the same elevation as post 3? Thus far, nobody is wrong. The machine has to be set at an angle to achieve the 50yd flight requirement.

Roger- a Pat trap throw plate does not set flat when tilted forward all the way. So what part of the arm is the used to reference as equal to post elevation?

 

ARK80, If you set the plate with a level it should be even with the shooting pads. The throwing arm and the pads should make a flat plain.
Then the plate is angled to elevate the targets to 8 to 10 feet above the throwing pads 30 feet in front of the trap house. The 50 yard pole
is to be on the same plain with the throwing plain. If your field drops down in front of the trap house you set a stake in the ground so that the top of the stake is on the same level as the machine and shooting pads. If it rises in front of the trap house you do the best you can for distance. You can set the height and set the speed with a good radar gun. This all must be done with a transit. If you know a surveyor ask him for some help. Roger C.

 

Roger,
I understand survey and all. At our club, the top of pad is level & base of Pat trap is level. When I manually tilt the machine all the way forward until hydraulics bypass, the throw plate is NOT flat. It still has a positive angle to it (slightly higher in front). That’s what made me ask my question.
We have some work to do in the house because the machine sits to high and throws to flat of target. As for now, we using a cocked target as the plane for the elevation marker.

Thanks.

 

The Pat traps never did conform to the rule of trap house design or target setting. That is why the rules are just suggestions now.
You should be able to get a bench mark as to the height of where the plate should be. If it is to high the pedistal would have to be cut. Get a bench mark for your height pole, and work from there and come very close to a very good target. Roger C.

 

Our state Skeeter shoot pulled the Pats for Mec and one local club did also -- But Mec is made in our state